Here we go again. Anti hunting/Anti gun horse farmer neighbor tresspassing

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

HogCommander said:
Me & another hunter both hunted a friends property in MD for a few years. The other hunter had a run-in with a neighbor over parking. Same neighbor confronted me one day...I was friendly, told him I would respect his property...turned into a completely different guy and went out of his way to help me. A little give & take goes a long way sometimes even when you dont legally have to

Same neighbor "confronted" you. Means he actually had the decency to come and speak with you versus sending a letter or e-mail. Huge difference there. Of course, I would go and try to speak to my neighbor too. Had a disagreement here myself, but not over hunting. Our kids were playing with the neighbor's kid. There was a disagreement, and the neighbor told my wife that our son was no longer allowed on their property. Was actually the neighbor's cousin that came to tell my wife that. I went to speak to the neighbor (man) when he got home from work and his wife came out yelling expletives at me. At that point, we were in the "stay on your property and I will stay on my property" understanding. They were only here for 2 years and they have now moved on. New neighbors are awesome.

If I was the OP, I would go over there to speak with them and be as nice as possible. I would extend the olive branch while sharpening the spears, swords, and arrows just in case diplomacy did not work.

Woody · Oct 6, 2019

GutPile said:
The area is filled with gun fire from waterfowl season through deer season and on Sundays when a lot of people target shoot. There is even a legal decision from the Supreme Court on this in favor of the noise maker. http://www.lawschoolcasebriefs.net/2014/01/foster-v-preston-mill-co-case-brief.html. Im not a lawyer though so Im not sure how this would relate to my situation.

So as long as Im following the letter of the law I think im fine to do as I wish. Which might just be building a new 100 yard rifle range parallel to and as close to the property line as possible.

I believe you are right, and it sounds like despite the alcohol, your response was quite measured.

Not to seem like a buzzkill, but just think carefully before doing things that would be for purely vindictive reasons. She sounds like a piece of work, and legal issues...warranted or not, get very expensive very quickly.

I doubt you'd want her building a little back yard/back pasture cabin or children's playhouses at every property corner or edge to reset that distance to make your life more difficult... Two people can play nasty games, whether you start in the right or not.

I hope it can simply be peaceful for you from here... Bad blood between neighbors is a drag...

GutPile · Oct 6, 2019

My plan is to just ignore and keep doing what I've been doing on property since before I purchased it. Whack deer with discretion and enjoy the gun openers like every other hunter in the entire area does if I feel like it. Some years I don't. I've fired a gun maybe 3 times back there in the last 4 years. Bow works just fine. Which is why Im so pissed off. Besides the fact that she had to trespass to begin with - i don't make any noise. Guess she went off her meds or was bored printing money from her horse !@%!@ery. That industry can't fail fast enough.

GutPile · Oct 6, 2019

Boats said:
Here "we" go again?

How about here "you" go again. Considering, this doesn't sound like an anti-gun thing but more a business owner trying to protect their business. Horses can be worth a LOT of money. (and no, I am not a horse person. I don't care for them, or their owners much)

Of the two, I actually side with the horse people. (Although they should NOT have trespassed on your property)

Raising or training horses is their business, their livelihood. You WANT to hunt (I doubt you NEED to). And while you were there first, I doubt when they knew that there was an avid hunter in the area when they bought the property.

Notice they didn't go straight to legal action, they are simply asking you not to shoot in the direction of their business. Sounds reasonable and proactive to me.

The thing is, horses ARE skittish, and can freak out due to loud noises. You ARE responsible for the noise your firearm makes as well as where the bullet lands. And while you may be well inside the bounds of the law, there are acres of difference between criminal and civil responsibility.

This is the perfect reason why suppressors should be unregulated, it is just neighborly.

I would try to work things out face to face with the neighbor. They have every right to raise horses, just like you have every right to hunt on your land and land you have permission to hunt on.

Unless you would rather they stay silent, and wait until one of the horses freaks out due to a gunshot and then sue you for damages. And yes, you would most likely be held liable because your actions are: avoidable (by hunting with a bow) and controllable (you fired the shot that caused the horse to freak).

Finally, in this state, firearm owners are pretty much pariahs anyway and the antis out number us by quite a margin. so it is foreseeable that a jury would side with your neighbor as well.

sorry for your troubles.

Its rural/northern Baltimore county. sunup and sundown muzzle loader and gun season is cannon fire all around. This particular property also leases fields to an operation that does firearm (not sure if legal) deer control. So they are shooting deer out of season 24X7 to begin with in their corn fields. The farm manager himself has shot coyote and fox in field with horses around. His words not mine. A few years back when he wandered onto my property to say hi after I took a decent buck on the fire arm opener. He was also not in orange and just wandered in. This is just some twat anti gun nut off her meds trespassing but the mentality and attitude seems to be pervasive amongst the horse tards. Which is why I didn't get to climb my stand and bow hunt today. Because some group decided that an unconstitutional British crown decree from the 1700s should still be on the books.

possumman · Oct 6, 2019

Horses are spooked by gunfire?--has she never seen a western?

Mightydog · Oct 6, 2019

Yep, so he says you’d be liable if his horses stampede and crash thru the fence due to your “loud noise”? Really? What about thunder or fireworks? Tell him to pound it and if caught trespassing will be prosecuted. Gee, what if he stepped in a gopher hole on your property? Would he hold you liable since he trespassed? Either that or I’d ignore him and mark his email as “spam”!

slsc98 · Oct 6, 2019

GutPile said:
... The farmer/owner is ... From the UK...

Oh dude, you dint tell us THAT! Full on fun time begins NOW!!!!

I’d be willing to spend a LOTTA moolah to put the biggest damn pole and flags up I can. May be start with ....

Gadsden Flag
In 1775, Colonel Christopher Gadsden was in Philadelphia representing his home colony of South Carolina at the Continental Congress and presented this new naval flag to the Congress.
It became the first flag used by the sea-going soldiers who eventually would become the United States Marines.
This flag first saw combat under Commodore Hopkins, who was the first Commander-in-Chief of the new Continental Navy, when Washington’s Cruisers put to sea for the first time in February of 1776 to raid the Bahamas and capture stored British cannon and shot.

GutPile said:
.... So yeah worst case scenario. Time to sell/move I guess?

Uh, not just no but, “Hell, NO!” Too much fun to be had here, man. Make the Brit my new hobby! :evilgrin3

lazarus · Oct 6, 2019

Woody said:
I'm with you here.

People get to used to how they might deal with or talk to someone online, while forgetting that there is a lot to be said for a face to face meeting, that begins with a smile and a handshake.

Unfortunately, he chose instead to trespass and begin like he was starting an angry thread.

That said, he isn't crazy to have concerns, he just has no right to demand anything. Maybe some simple, friendly, neighborly reassurance from you, as the hand of reason and calm would go a long way. Not much easier to begin or harder to end than neighbor feuds... I would at least try the smile and a handshake route.

If he turns out to be an ass clown that opens his door and starts yelling about your irresponsibility, then you have a different path to figure out.

Whatever happens, I wouldn't suggest the trespassing option...that seems a little too much like blatant escalation, which isn't in anyone's best interest.

He sent it in writing. I’d respond the same. Nicely though.

Use some reassurance. Let them know you ensure you follow all hunting laws and regulations as well as hunt in a safe manner and would never shoot on to their property. I WOULD relay that your property is posted no trespassing and the picture they sent appears to have been taken while trespassing.

I’d leave it with “I’d be willing to discuss your concerns further if you would like and reasonable ways I might be able to allay them”

Obviously they won’t have reasonable suggestions. I don’t suggest you do a thing at all other than try to out their mind at ease.

Also 55 yds is pretty damn far across a property line. Do the woods come up to the property line? Or is the stand on the wood edge and it’s a further 55yds to the property line. My woods there’d be no way you’d see a stand 55yds in to them unless all the leaves were off the trees.

danb · Oct 6, 2019

email, what email?

huh, I will have to look in my spam folder to see if I got it. I'll have to look and see what stand you are talking about.

In other words, ignore emails. I get non-spam stuff going into spam at least once a week.

But honestly, dont shoot towards other peoples property.

ETA: I now see the burbon kicked in and you responded. oh well. Just make sure you are not within the required distance of an occupied structure. I am not sure about the 50 yards thing, it sounds like the horse farmer is confusing 50 yds "from an occupied structure" (in MoCo and some other counties) not 50 yds inside the property line. You can pull the Trump: move it to one inch inside your property but back facing theirs.

Beefcube · Oct 6, 2019

GutPile said:
My plan is to just ignore and keep doing what I've been doing on property since before I purchased it. Whack deer with discretion and enjoy the gun openers like every other hunter in the entire area does if I feel like it. Some years I don't. I've fired a gun maybe 3 times back there in the last 4 years. Bow works just fine. Which is why Im so pissed off. Besides the fact that she had to trespass to begin with - i don't make any noise. Guess she went off her meds or was bored printing money from her horse !@%!@ery. That industry can't fail fast enough.

Well they started the ball rolling and yes an accepted email can be used in court which they've already threatened by saying you'd be liable for their horses. I learned the email thing in the last business deal I had to justify, they just need to show on their record you opened it. It doesn't mean you read it, but that can't be proved. That's if you plan to just ignore it and carry on as before.
Take the free option and go to a DNR office and consult them for help. To make sure you are legal and in the clear.
Or
Find a lawyer who will compose the response to them on your behalf, most times when they see your not going to bow and already sought legal advice they'll just quiet up to not spend money on a court case after you point out you're legal and not a danger to them.

Melnic · Oct 6, 2019

Ignorance #1 is the idea that the probability of a “shot hitting his horse“ from a tree stand is high enough for him to even think about it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

traveller · Oct 6, 2019

How would someone even go about documenting that a singular gunshot caused damage to his horses ?

As with most neighborhood disputes, keeping them from rising to the level of 'lawyer letters' is usually a good idea.

Stoveman · Oct 7, 2019

I think that bourbon is getting a bad rap in this case.

Atrox88 · Oct 7, 2019

Alan3413 said:
OP,

Try talking to the neighbor. Sometimes face to face can clear up a lot of misunderstanding. Maybe y'all can work out some kind of arrangement.

Worst case, you can always tell him to pound sand if nothing else works.

Good thought. I bet if the neighbor would have done the same thing instead sending a letter this may have been solved already. But my guess is that the horse neighbor is laying the groundwork for possible legal action down the road. Covering his bases so to speak.

Mini14tac · Oct 7, 2019

I don't see how you would be responsible for their horses if they were to stampede or keel over of a heart attack! A friend of mine was safely shooting at his house. The horsey people across the street called the police. The police showed up and told my buddy that they had called. The officer checked it out and told him everything he was doing was safe and perfectly legal. My buddy asked the officer if he would mind if he took another another shot while the officer was present just to make a point. The officer said go for it. The officer then drove over to the horse farm and told the owner everything was legal and to put his horses in the barn if he had concerns when he was shooting.

traveller · Oct 7, 2019

In Chuck Co we have a rail-trail that runs through some tracts of public hunting land. The 'trail people' including the spandex clad bicyclists were up in arms about the state now allowing some sunday hunting. Somehow they are afraid that all those fudds with their high powered rifles are going to shoot them if they are on the trail. They didn't seem to understand that hunting is already legal on weekdays and saturdays and that in all the years of the trails existence, nobody has ever gotten shot during those times.

Ignorati.

Mightydog · Oct 7, 2019

The OP received an EMAIL not a snail mail letter. I would be interested to know how they got the email address and I would immediately put their email into my spam folder, and not reply to it. Let them LEGALLY notify me via registered mail of an issue they have. Hell, their kid could’ve sent it.....no signature was there?

BigCountry14 · Oct 7, 2019

Some of these horse people treat the damned things like fragile little babies that can't be subjected to the wind blowing the wrong way. Those are the people that get someone hurt because a cow farted two miles away and their pansy little horse freaks out.

I shot my 8 point last December, through my horse pasture, with them in it (they were not in the line of fire, they were up at the front). They barely flinched. My shooting range runs parallel to the back pasture fence. My biggest concern is the big dumb one trying to eat my ejected brass.

As long as the stand is 150 yards from the occupied dwelling (the barn would count as it would get an occupancy cert in most counties), the stand can be right on the property line, provided you only shoot on your land.

As others have said, I would try work things out cordially first, and not escalate. But it sounds like the person may not be receptive.

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Raineman · Oct 7, 2019

Have you read through your county disclosures? You are required to sign a document stating that you were provided the disclosures (at settlement) when you purchased your home/land. THEY would also have been required to do the same when they bought theirs. The issue (noise) may be addressed in the disclosures, and if so, they would have no recourse if a loud noise freaked out their animals.

Vic · Oct 7, 2019

I'd be upset as you are but with time cooler minds might make a better result. As many have suggested I'd talk to the person FTF. I'd explain that you still plan to hunt it but take her concern into consideration. If you plan to hunt the Muzzle loader opening tell her she might want to keep the horses in the bar that day, etc. If she maintains her claim that the horses are in danger, tell her you have no other place to hunt and that you plan to do so. Maybe she has some other place you can hunt that won't endanger her horses.
As for involving a lawyer, I try to avoid this because the only people who win when lawyers are involved are the lawyers. I have never had one work to my favor, ever. Depending on how the FTF goes, I'd definitely talk to local law and let them know of her trespass just in case she plans to do it again.

I'd have to agree with many concerned here, horse people can be a royal bother. I'd try tact before pulling out the heavy guns.
Vince

Here we go again. Anti hunting/Anti gun horse farmer neighbor tresspassing

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