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Old August 13th, 2010, 05:16 PM #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
MD doesn't have a list like we are discussing because they haven't had to compile one. Everyone is restricted.

They will make one. A big one.

The requirement to have a permit will almost surely pass strict constitutional muster, as long as the process fulfills an overriding interest of the government (restricting guns from dangerous people, etc.), is narrowly tailored, and is the least restrictive way of meeting the need. MD will need to tow that line. You can ponder what that line looks like and probably argue forever on the details (NC can issue a permit the same day...why can't MD?, etc.)...but at the end of the day there will be no "Constitutional Carry" the way many of you think of it (no permit, no restrictions).

Assuming we win, the next fights will be over sensitive places, fees, permit processing, etc.

I am seriously interested in where fees are going. I think they will stay, but be highly regulated and limited in scope and price. From a more practical matter I am interested in the time it takes to issue a permit and what data they will try to use. Can they ask for a medical release to ensure you are not on heavy meds or been diagnosed clinically depressed (VA talked about this and I think it got shot down)?

Lots of details need to be worked out and the arguments will never end.
How many think MD will continue issuing permits for 3 years instead of the standard 5 or in FL's case, 7 years?
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Old August 13th, 2010, 05:18 PM #582
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Whattaya know. I was wrong.
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Originally Posted by gprimr1 View Post
Nevada has this requirement that you qualify on the weapon your licensed to carry.

I was beaten to this.
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Originally Posted by rambling_one View Post
How many think MD will continue issuing permits for 3 years instead of the standard 5 or in FL's case, 7 years?
I can't wait for the day when I'm concerned about how long my MD CCW permit is good for before I have to renew.

Edit: Weird, dunno why it quoted those other two lines...
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Old August 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM #583
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Latest entries on the Woolard v. Sheridan docket:

Date Filed # Docket Text
07/29/2010 1 COMPLAINT against Terrance Sheridan, Denis Gallagher, Seymour Goldstein, Charles M. Thomas, Jr. ( Filing fee $ 350 receipt number 0416-2619321.), filed by Raymond Woollard, Second Amendment Foundation, Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Civil Cover Sheet, # 2 Line for Summons)(Hansel, Cary) Modified on 7/30/2010 (ljs, Deputy Clerk). (Entered: 07/29/2010)
07/30/2010 Deficiency Notice as to Second Amendment Foundation, Inc.,. Your Local Rule 103.3 disclosure statement has not been filed. The Statement must be filed by 8/9/2010 (ljs, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 07/30/2010)
07/30/2010 2 NOTICE by Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Raymond Woollard re Deficiency Notice, 1 Complaint, Summons for All Defendants (Attachments: # 1 Summons, # 2 Summons, # 3 Summons)(Hansel, Cary) (Entered: 07/30/2010)
07/30/2010 3 Summons Issued 21 days as to Denis Gallagher, Seymour Goldstein, Terrence Sheridan, Charles M. Thomas, Jr.. (ljs, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 07/30/2010)
08/06/2010 4 MOTION to Appear Pro Hac Vice for Alan Gura on behalf of Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Raymond Woollard by Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Raymond Woollard (Filing Fee Paid $50.00, Receipt #14637044273)(bmh, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 08/09/2010)
08/09/2010 5 PAPERLESS ORDER granting 4 Motion to Appear Pro Hac Vice for attorney Alan Gura on behalf of Raymond Woollard and Second Amendment Foundation Inc. Directing attorney Alan Gura to register on-line for CM/ECF at http://www.mdd.uscourts.gov/attorney/registration.asp.. Signed by Clerk on 8/9/10. (cmns, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 08/09/2010)
08/09/2010 6 Local Rule 103.3 Disclosure Statement by Second Amendment Foundation, Inc.. (Hansel, Cary) (Entered: 08/09/2010)
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Old August 13th, 2010, 07:44 PM #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
The NRA still does good work in the sporting and instructor side of things. They did great technical work on range safety and backstop construction that someone here pointed my way. It's good stuff.

I think the problem is they cry about protecting our rights to get our money and then we are disappointed when they are MIA.

I would not be surprised to find someone from the NRA here on the forum. More than a few instructors. Seriously would like to hear the things they've done for us in MD. Maybe it's all a big misunderstanding and we simply are ignorant of the facts.

Or maybe they do need to step up. In which case, join the discussion and tell us how you will help.

But something in my head tells me the NRA is not watching the flow here because they are so absent from MD they could care less what we think or say about them. I hope they prove us wrong, because we need lots of help here. Let the SAF fight in the courts; we need power on the ground in Annapolis working both fronts at the same time.
Agreed -

Obviously they work pretty well at the national/federal level in keeping the politicians aware that we are out here. I guess we can give them some credit for the "assault" weapons ban being allow to expire (even there, I'm not so sure how much they had to do with it)

But here in MD we have been relegated to 2nd class citizen status and the NRA has not lifted one blessed finger to help us. No ads in the local news papers, no information campaign no nothing. I think they came out against the Saturday night special ban back in 1988 (How'd that one work out for you MD legislators? - jackasses) but other than that? Seriously can someone help out here and say something positive about the NRA in MD?

I'll be pissed off if the NRA tries to step in on the SAF lawsuit. They need to let the SAF and Gura have the spotlight and the glory for their masterful work and not try to claim any of the credit.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 08:04 PM #585
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Quote:
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I guess we can give them some credit for the "assault" weapons ban being allow to expire (even there, I'm not so sure how much they had to do with it)
That can be credited directly to the loss of the House by Democrats in 1996. It is 'conventional wisdom' on both the left and the right that the '94 ban had a big role in the loss. I'm not so sure, but suspect the NRA stepped in to heighten the impression after the fact (which is brilliant in my estimation).

Even today, even Obama won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Just today there was a debate on WTOP between Eleanor Holmes Norton and the guy who looks to unseat her. She said point blank that a great number of Dems would walk from any congressional vote bill if it meant dropping the gun measure attached last year. She credited the NRA for getting on the bill, but said it was "gun Dems" who killed the chance to drop the provision and pass the DC voting bill. So she walked.

Her competitor, Douglas Sloan, said of the gun provision "leave it in so we get the vote"..."we can always try to remove it later."

He sounded pretty good to me, guns aside (what other position can he take in DC?). He would have taken the deal last year and DC would be a Shall-Issue district. He would have complained about it the whole time, but he would have taken it. Sounds reasonable to me.

Granted, that would have ended Palmer's lawsuit against DC...maybe part of the evil NRA scheme??? (kidding)
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Old August 13th, 2010, 08:05 PM #586
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As I was tucking my M&P into my waistband preparing to go to dinner, I got to thinking about this lawsuit. I take CCW for granted. Its been so long, 20 years, that I've been able to do it.
That said, I am ecstatic that this lawsuit is in the works and I will be partying with the rest of you when it succeeds and the free, law abiding citizens of MD can exercise their 2A rights.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 08:10 PM #587
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I think it speaks loud volumes that MSI, & now SCOPE in NY have donated substantial sums of money to SAF for their accomplishments & ongoing battles for our rights. I don't hear anyone talking about giving any money to the NRA other then renewing their memberships (which seems prudent.) The NRA officials would have to be literally intoxicated with hookers & blow 24/7 to not hear that message loud & clear; to not see the writing on the wall.

NRA needs to decide if they want to stay relevant or be relegated to the outskirts, only to be involved in range activities. The formulation of so many other 2A support groups hasn't been because of infighting among the national shooting community. It's been because the one group we had to unite us all has been AWOL. Slowly, we're all gravitating back together, many voices across the nation saying the same thing, just without the NRA. I can foresee a day when the NRA has been replaced by another national group doing essentially what the NRA should have been doing. Maybe ten years from now it will be the SAF that congress and gun owners pay the most attention to.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:22 PM #588
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I am a member of SCOPE NY

We made the news release today, Donated $5000.00 to SAF.
In the discussion at our last meeting I learned that MSI is doing in Maryland what SCOPE is doing in NY. Fighting back against 2A assaults by hoplophobic politicians and their contributors.

After learning of the Law Suit in July, also at a SCOPE Meeting, I joined SAF the next day.

I always came to this forum for updates on McDonald as in my opinion Maryland Shooters had the most comprehensive discussion of the subject on the net.

I don't know the political scene in MD but in NY we had 3 Democratic Senators that are Pro Gun. The Dems hold the majority this year. If they continue to hold the majority after November, ( census) the lines will be redrawn, the pro gun republicans will be forever screwed and so will gun owners.

Never been involved in Politics before (other than voting). This year however, I can finally say I am Involved. Working on several pro gun candidates campaigns and have donated to them.

Could have left New York but decided to stay and fight. If the worst case happens and the NY dems retain the majority, and Cumo becomes governor, then I will have to pack up and go.

Anyway, I feel a stronger bond now to MS Members.
Great bunch of guys and we are all in it together.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:29 PM #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golo View Post
We made the news release today, Donated $5000.00 to SAF.
In the discussion at our last meeting I learned that MSI is doing in Maryland what SCOPE is doing in NY. Fighting back against 2A assaults by hoplophobic politicians and their contributors.

After learning of the Law Suit in July, also at a SCOPE Meeting, I joined SAF the next day.

I always came to this forum for updates on McDonald as in my opinion Maryland Shooters had the most comprehensive discussion of the subject on the net.

I don't know the political scene in MD but in NY we had 3 Democratic Senators that are Pro Gun. The Dems hold the majority this year. If they continue to hold the majority after November, ( census) the lines will be redrawn, the pro gun republicans will be forever screwed and so will gun owners.

Never been involved in Politics before (other than voting). This year however, I can finally say I am Involved. Working on several pro gun candidates campaigns and have donated to them.

Could have left New York but decided to stay and fight. If the worst case happens and the NY dems retain the majority, and Cumo becomes governor, then I will have to pack up and go.

Anyway, I feel a stronger bond now to MS Members.
Great bunch of guys and we are all in it together.
Golo...

Welcome to the fight and we're glad to have you here on MDS. Keep up the fight in NY. The Kachalsky v. Cacace case in NY mirrors that of the Woolard case here in MD. Alan Gura is fighting this fight in different Circuits for a reason....a penultimate battle in SCOTUS is looming to keep the clause/phrase "Keep and Bear" together in the Fundamental (Civil Right) sense.

This battle WILL be won in very short order. Thanks and Kudos to NY for your also generous contributions to SAF....
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:39 PM #590
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