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  • jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    My son and I have supported gun shows for a long time, rarely missing any until the last year or so. I've even bought a 9mm from you at a Frederick show.

    The fact is attendance at gun shows is way down....just look at the need for this thread and any threads from recent shows.

    It's wonderful that the man that runs the shows funnels a lot of money toward the cause, but that fact alone is not going to bring more people in the door.

    If you want to get attendance numbers back up....you need to be encouraging dealers to actually offer deals.......


    Its not even offering deals, its not asking for ridiculous prices. And befor Mopar chimes in about his shotgun find, many people are not looking for flips. We are looking for AR parts, ammo, accessories,guns,etc for personal use.

    The ONLY vendor that ever has reasonable prices is Lou.

    I wonder if Frank has raised the prices $25 on the vendors. Instead of just raising prices on attendees he needs to communicate the same to venders.

    I am NOT discounting what Frank does and I think it is great that he donates to the cause and puts in his efforts. Business is business though. Charity does not drive business to your doors. There is a fundamental flaw in the business model and he needs to tackle it in this changing oppressive environment.
     

    Maverick0313

    Retired and loving it
    Jul 16, 2009
    9,183
    Bridgeville, DE
    Silverado Gun Show's proprietor, Frank, does a lot more for the cause than most, and a lot of things that have never been mentioned.

    Frank donates part of the admission price to organizations fighting for RKBA.

    Frank provides free booth space to MSI whenever requested.

    Frank serves on the Board of the local IWLA.

    Frank goes to Annapolis to Annapolis to speak out against legislation.

    I can't speak highly enough of Frank and his character.

    Please attend the upcoming Frederick show and lend him and our cause your support.

    What he said.....:party29::thumbsup:
     

    precisionfire

    Active Member
    May 20, 2011
    385
    Martinsburg WV
    Really now, How many folks here actually believe our merchandise are overpriced?

    Recently a guy states: "I can get a barrel off the internet for under $100. You're raping people with $400 barrels". This after having me open a sealed Noveske Barrel. Sometimes I wish I could ......

    Talk about costs. It breaks down like this.

    $1000 for tables
    $50 for electric
    $1000 Paying Good Help
    $500 Hotels Rooms
    $300 meals

    The average mark-up on parts is about 18%. Folks that can do the math will discover that we have to sell a lot to make a profit. And we do. We have always done well at MD Shows. Thanks to all our loyal customers!
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    Really now, How many folks here actually believe our merchandise are overpriced?

    Recently a guy states: "I can get a barrel off the internet for under $100. You're raping people with $400 barrels". This after having me open a sealed Noveske Barrel. Sometimes I wish I could ......

    Talk about costs. It breaks down like this.

    $1000 for tables
    $50 for electric
    $1000 Paying Good Help
    $500 Hotels Rooms
    $300 meals

    The average mark-up on parts is about 18%. Folks that can do the math will discover that we have to sell a lot to make a profit. And we do. We have always done well at MD Shows. Thanks to all our loyal customers!



    The problem is the way many venders look at it. This is a business concept. Unfortunately many small businesses dont even get the concepts...

    1) Is there enough volume coming throw the doors to justify the cost?
    2) What do I need to increase / offer my prices at to make a profit?
    3) Are the prices I am offering "competitive" with what else is out there?

    What I see is that many vendors try to jack the prices to pay for the show in a few sales.


    Also if you are paying $1000 an hour for 14 hours of vender time - heck Ill even call it 22 in prep time, etc you are paying WAYY TOO MUCH. Thats over $40/hr

    Additionally if your cost truly are $2,850 and your margins are 18% then you need to sell (2850 /.18) $16,000 in merchandise to just break even and to top it off in less than 15 hours....

    If this is the case then why bother even going? From what I read from the vendors, you guys "are barely" getting by.


    Dont get me wrong, I like going to shows, but MD has created a hostile environment and gun show vendors and promoters need to adjust to this environment or it is inevitable it will go away.

    People are blaming the consumer for the problem, when the consumer is telling you what the problem is.
     

    Blue Fins

    Active Member
    Aug 23, 2011
    238
    LONG LIVE SILVERADO.
    Supporting the shows in MD is important. Its a great way to see, feel, touch your firearm before actually buying it.
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    Its not even offering deals, its not asking for ridiculous prices. And befor Mopar chimes in about his shotgun find, many people are not looking for flips. We are looking for AR parts, ammo, accessories,guns,etc for personal use.

    The ONLY vendor that ever has reasonable prices is Lou.

    I wonder if Frank has raised the prices $25 on the vendors. Instead of just raising prices on attendees he needs to communicate the same to venders.

    I am NOT discounting what Frank does and I think it is great that he donates to the cause and puts in his efforts. Business is business though. Charity does not drive business to your doors. There is a fundamental flaw in the business model and he needs to tackle it in this changing oppressive environment.



    Really now, How many folks here actually believe our merchandise are overpriced?

    Recently a guy states: "I can get a barrel off the internet for under $100. You're raping people with $400 barrels". This after having me open a sealed Noveske Barrel. Sometimes I wish I could ......

    Talk about costs. It breaks down like this.

    $1000 for tables
    $50 for electric
    $1000 Paying Good Help
    $500 Hotels Rooms
    $300 meals

    The average mark-up on parts is about 18%. Folks that can do the math will discover that we have to sell a lot to make a profit. And we do. We have always done well at MD Shows. Thanks to all our loyal customers!

    The problem is the way many venders look at it. This is a business concept. Unfortunately many small businesses dont even get the concepts...

    1) Is there enough volume coming throw the doors to justify the cost?
    2) What do I need to increase / offer my prices at to make a profit?
    3) Are the prices I am offering "competitive" with what else is out there?

    What I see is that many vendors try to jack the prices to pay for the show in a few sales.


    Also if you are paying $1000 an hour for 14 hours of vender time - heck Ill even call it 22 in prep time, etc you are paying WAYY TOO MUCH. Thats over $40/hr

    Additionally if your cost truly are $2,850 and your margins are 18% then you need to sell (2850 /.18) $16,000 in merchandise to just break even and to top it off in less than 15 hours....

    If this is the case then why bother even going? From what I read from the vendors, you guys "are barely" getting by.


    Dont get me wrong, I like going to shows, but MD has created a hostile environment and gun show vendors and promoters need to adjust to this environment or it is inevitable it will go away.

    People are blaming the consumer for the problem, when the consumer is telling you what the problem is.

    Jon, the table cost is $65.00 per six foot table. Shooters Discount does 9 tables totaling $585.00, plus all the other additional show expenses that are incurred (see Marks' breakdown though I don't have the motel expenses). You're banging up Frank for an attempt to be able to pay the promotion/show expenses and make a profit for himself. The way a show SHOULD be financially run are the table fees paid by the vendors to the promoter will cover ALL COSTS to support/have that show. The money collected at the gate (admission fee minus monies collected for the FSA2013 lawsuit) is the promoter's paycheck for organizing/promoting/having that show. I know for fact that in some of the past shows, Frank started out several thousand dollars IN THE HOLE, or IN THE RED, largely due to ADVERTISING, just before 9:00 AM Saturday morning at opening time. If the tables were jacked up another $25.00 per table, I can guarantee you 2 things:

    1. There will be considerably fewer vendors at the shows (people are already complaining about this).

    2. Of those fewer vendors at the shows, there will be a SIGNIFICANT PRICE INCREASE in product/merchandise that's being offered for sale by said vendors, and yes, that would also include Shooters Discount.

    I have absorbed as much as I can financially absorb regarding the operation of my business and can't absorb any more. I run my business in an old but tried and trued method, get the most out of the least to try and keep overhead costs down. A few examples: Why do you think I have old mismatched counters in my shop??? Why do I have a little box and envelope for payments collected in the shop instead of a fancy computerized cash register??? Why do I not have a computer in the shop (I have one at home and I'll be damned if I'm paying for two of them and the related service fees)???

    All of this raises two questions I have for you:

    1. What amount of percentage would you consider a fair net profit (not gross profit) for a vendor such as Mark and I doing a show???

    2. Can you put on a decent show (or better show) as Frank with all the related costs and advertising at half (or less than half) the current $65.00 per table fee at the given Frederick and Howard venues???


    OH, BTW, the table fees for vendors have increased over the past several years from $40.0~$45.00 to $65.00 per table. That translates to a 44.5% to 62.5% increase. The admission fee has increased over that amount of time by approximately the same percentage.
     

    lee2

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 8, 2007
    19,012
    what i think we need in maryland is a cultural change.
    instead of vendors trying to put each other out of business, i think they should help each other grow, to encourage people to continue to come to the shows in maryland.
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    Really now, How many folks here actually believe our merchandise are overpriced?

    Recently a guy states: "I can get a barrel off the internet for under $100. You're raping people with $400 barrels". This after having me open a sealed Noveske Barrel. Sometimes I wish I could ..........

    Tell that asshat to buy his cheap-assed "under $100.00 barrel" and stick it up his ass sideways.

    Comparing that "under $100.00 barrel" (if true) to a Noveske barrel is the same as comparing a Corvette to a Chevette.
     

    lee2

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 8, 2007
    19,012
    Tell that asshat to buy his cheap-assed "under $100.00 barrel" and stick it up his ass sideways.

    Comparing that "under $100.00 barrel" (if true) to a Noveske barrel is the same as comparing a Corvette to a Chevette.
    two words: "anger management."
     

    rdc

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 3, 2010
    3,690
    Middlefingurton
    your margins are 18% then you need to sell (2850 /.18) $16,000 in merchandise to just break even and to top it is.

    Not to nit-pick but he said his MARKUP was 18% which actually works out to a MARGIN of about 15%.
    That kind of margin blows. My boss used to hand me my ass if I sold a part (not gn parts) at less than 25% margin. He preferred an average of 30-40%. Not sure how anyone can pull it off with margins that small. My hat is off to anyone that can.
     
    I've said it before, but my main reason for going to the shows, apart from the Lou and Mopar show, is to see used guns from shops I don't ordinarily get to. As a matter of fact, I saw one at the last Timonium show that if the guy's still got it, it's going home with me. (After the Maryland-required waiting period, of course.)
     

    lee2

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 8, 2007
    19,012
    I've said it before, but my main reason for going to the shows, apart from the Lou and Mopar show, is to see used guns from shops I don't ordinarily get to. As a matter of fact, I saw one at the last Timonium show that if the guy's still got it, it's going home with me. (After the Maryland-required waiting period, of course.)

    is it a pistol? is it bigger than a bread box?
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    Exactly my point Lou. Your prices are the same....be it at a show or at your store. So why bother to drive past your store to Frederick, then pay $10 to buy something I could get for the same price at your store.

    I'm not suggesting that dealers need to discount everything at the shows but you all should offer either advertised or unadvertised show specials of some nature.

    This isn't 2012 anymore where people were lined up 50 deep outside the door of gun shows. If you want to get folks back in the door you need to go back to marketing 101..

    If I did what you've indicated, having a LOWER PRICE on an item I have in quantity at a show, then after the show a person comes into the shop to purchase that item at the "special discounted show price" and I inform them that was a "gun show special ONLY" (and advertised as such) and the price is now the HIGHER REGULAR PRICE" and that I won't honor that "gun show SPECIAL PRICE", that person would get quite pissed and probably wouldn't do any further business with Shooters Discount, not to mention tell of his/her friends too. BTW, this is "voice of experience" speaking here.

    The problem is the way many venders look at it. This is a business concept. Unfortunately many small businesses dont even get the concepts...

    1) Is there enough volume coming throw the doors to justify the cost?
    2) What do I need to increase / offer my prices at to make a profit?
    3) Are the prices I am offering "competitive" with what else is out there?

    What I see is that many vendors try to jack the prices to pay for the show in a few sales.


    Also if you are paying $1000 an hour for 14 hours of vender time - heck Ill even call it 22 in prep time, etc you are paying WAYY TOO MUCH. Thats over $40/hr

    Additionally if your cost truly are $2,850 and your margins are 18% then you need to sell (2850 /.18) $16,000 in merchandise to just break even and to top it off in less than 15 hours....

    If this is the case then why bother even going? From what I read from the vendors, you guys "are barely" getting by.


    Dont get me wrong, I like going to shows, but MD has created a hostile environment and gun show vendors and promoters need to adjust to this environment or it is inevitable it will go away.

    People are blaming the consumer for the problem, when the consumer is telling you what the problem is.

    Jon, if you have a bona-fide, practical, realistic, cost effective, and easy to implement solution(s) to this matter, I'd certainly like to know about it/them.

    LONG LIVE SILVERADO.
    Supporting the shows in MD is important. Its a great way to see, feel, touch your firearm before actually buying it.

    .....and buying that gun from the vendor that allowed you to phinger phuque that gun, and NOT from the interwebs.

    There BF, I fixed and completed it for ya'.:D

    Make the show and the deals worthy of attendance and people will come.

    Very carefully read and consider all the points brought forth in this thread before answering this question:

    How do, or would you "make the show and the deals worthy of attendance"??? Bear in mind, us dealers, well most of us dealers don't do this for a "hobby" but for a "LIVING".

    Tell that asshat to buy his cheap-assed "under $100.00 barrel" and stick it up his ass sideways.

    Comparing that "under $100.00 barrel" (if true) to a Noveske barrel is the same as comparing a Corvette to a Chevette.

    two words: "anger management."

    Jus' finishing what Mark didn't finish off as I don't like things incomplete. How would you like to get to the point just short of the money shot and stop???
     

    lee2

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 8, 2007
    19,012
    If I did what you've indicated, having a LOWER How would you like to get to the point just short of the money shot and stop???

    not sure i'm understanding you here, are you saying selling something is like climaxing in sex?
     

    Lou45

    R.I.P.
    Jun 29, 2010
    12,048
    Carroll County
    Not to nit-pick but he said his MARKUP was 18% which actually works out to a MARGIN of about 15%.
    That kind of margin blows. My boss used to hand me my ass if I sold a part (not gn parts) at less than 25% margin. He preferred an average of 30-40%. Not sure how anyone can pull it off with margins that small. My hat is off to anyone that can.

    I like to get a minimum of 20% margin, but after all is said and done, realistically it's somewhere in the 12% to 15% range.
     

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