No good deed goes unpunished in MD?

I’m a transplant from CA. Have owned handguns all my adult life after turning 21, and never had an issue in CA. Moved to MD and wanted to do the right thing and follow the law by getting my HQL (approved and received), and then proceed to fill out 77R for all the LEGALLY OBTAINED handguns I owned after getting my HQL.

A few days later a trooper emailed me and said the application was being denied, and that I cannot legally own those handguns. Turns out I had a minor misdemeanor (computer related, max sentence 1 year and $2000 fine; not hacking/gun/violence/theft/sex or anything very serious etc.) that I had plead no contest to 20 years ago to avoid a lengthy and costly trial, paid $100 fine and probation, and the case was dismissed a few months later - since then I haven’t even had a moving violation. In CA, the dismissal is basically considered an expungement and since it was a minor misdemeanor my right to own handguns were never an issue in CA. However, in MD the dismissal is not considered, and the same computer related charge carries a maximum sentence of 3 years and therefore I am a criminal who shouldn’t own guns in the eyes of the great state of Maryland.

I got notification on Friday that it was denied, and on Monday I started calling around local gun shops to see where I can drop my handguns off so they’re off my possession, and the place I usually go to is closed on Monday. Tuesday morning, around 6am, 2 heavily armed troopers knocked on my door and seeing that nobody answered the door, left. I got a call from that trooper and I told him I was going to drop all my guns off at a local gun shop that I liked, and in the afternoon I took care of it and gave up my prized possessions, including one mint condition H&K P7M8 still in its original case. I sent the receipt for all my guns that I had given up, and I’m told the case is closed. Wowza!

Also my HQL is revoked, so I mailed it back today. Having had it for less than 2 weeks....

Now that I’m unarmed except for a baseball bat for the first time in over 20 years, I’m left feeling somewhat naked, and wondering what the hell went wrong? The Feds, through many years of NICS checks when buying firearms and the very anal state that CA is, I have always been allowed to exercise my 2A right. In MD all of a sudden I’ve lost my 2A right? I am a law abiding, tax paying, contributing member of this society, and I can’t believe what just happened to me.

I’ve been in contact with an attorney to see what my options are, but I’m not optimistic about my chances of appealing the decision. The trooper who denied my 77R was very nice and walked me through all the options available, including asking the CA governor for a pardon, which I don’t think will happen (rarely given, 4-5 people get it a year, I looked). So my current options are:

1) Move to PA or another state where my dismissal is not an issue
2) Suck it up
3) Take legal action

I don’t mind taking legal action if there’s a 50/50 chance I’ll get my 2A right back.

I’m only posting this because I’m frustrated and want to vent. Your virtual emotional support is greatly appreciated.

AFAIK, the only legal action you can take is to get your record expunged in CA.
I guess you could move to PA instead.
Welcome to MD, it sucks


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Exercise option number 1 because Maryland will keep trampling your civil rights as long as you are here. It will probably get worse with the next legislative session starting in January.

Wouldn't you be able to argue that the Maryland crime is not equivalent to the CA crime because they are in different states.? The elements of the crime may not be the same, so they are different and applied differently. It was adjudicated in the State of California, not MD. So, I would think the prohibition would be based on the maximum time of the CA violation, not the MD violation. That's what I would argue. Also, this might be a good one to pass on to MSI for potential litigation.

Not_an_outlaw said:

Wouldn't you be able to argue that the Maryland crime is not equivalent to the CA crime because they are in different states.? The elements of the crime may not be the same, so they are different and applied differently.

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You're not thinking like a Maryland legislator. They don't care what the actual crime was. The only thing that matters is what the potential sentence COULD be. Could it have hit a year, even though no such sentence was applied? That's all that matters. Prohibited in Maryland.

rbird7282 said:

AFAIK, the only legal action you can take is to get your record expunged in CA.
I guess you could move to PA instead.
Welcome to MD, it sucks


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There is NO expungement in CA. NONE.

The only thing that is possible in CA is penal code 1203.4 relief which changes a guilty (or no contest) plea to not guilty.

The problem with this is that CA DOJ WILL NOT update the FBI database automatically, without a writ from a judge. (this is where the MSP gets their info) Furthermore, a Maryland attorney is not much use in this case.

you will need to get a CA attorney to file a CA penal code 1203.4 relief AND file a motion compelling the CA DOJ to update the FBI records. Happily, the person trying to fix their record does not have to be present in court.

OR try for a gubernatorial pardon. Good luck with that.

Occam said:

You're not thinking like a Maryland legislator. They don't care what the actual crime was. The only thing that matters is what the potential sentence COULD be. Could it have hit a year, even though no such sentence was applied? That's all that matters. Prohibited in Maryland.

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I think there is a valid challenge here. If a crime on California that has a name similar to a Maryland crime, but the maximum sentence is 1 year but in Maryland is 3 years, it's technically, not the same. I'd like to look into the elements of the crime as well. Each one of those elements has a state specific history (or body of law), that cannot be the same.

Thanks for the feedback. I already have the PC1203.4 relief, which is why CA and Feds are OK with me buying and possessing legal firearms. Governor pardon is rare and it's one of thousands chance so not holding my breath for that one. The case shows up in whatever database LEO looks at as dismissed though because of the no contest there obviously was a conviction, but in CA the 1203.4 is essentially the expungement and I could have become an LEO or practice law in CA with that in place. CA views 1203.4 as if nothing ever happened, but apparently not MD.

I'm all for sensible gun legislation, but whoever wrote this section in the MD law is a terrible person.

Here's a link to a very good explanation of how CA's expungement process works:

https://www.shouselaw.com/expungement-will-not-do.html

Note that it clearly states the CA expungement process will NOT restore one's 2A rights if the charge was related to certain felonies and misdemeanors related to sex, assault, robbery, firearm, and drugs. My computer related charge was for browsing and posting on internet car chat forums, posting SFW pictures in discussions while at work (seriously even the judge was like why are you here?).

Like I said, did not have any issues with buying and owning these handguns in CA, but the MSP trooper on my application felt that the MD gun law applied in my case and issued a denial.

Occam said:

You're not thinking like a Maryland legislator. They don't care what the actual crime was. The only thing that matters is what the potential sentence COULD be. Could it have hit a year, even though no such sentence was applied? That's all that matters. Prohibited in Maryland.

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That is what I thought I read in the legislation, and I was thinking MD gets to pick and choose which state had the harshest sentence to use that as the qualifier? How come we don't get to pick and choose which state's CCW laws are better for us?

Must say that when I read of an abomination like this, my blood pressure probably skyrockets. This is such a damnable contravention of Constitutionally-protected rights that it doesn’t even deserve a response. Please do contact MSI. If they’re willing to help you take this on, suggest they set up a donation portal, maybe GoFundMe. I’ll be the first contributor. You probably thought you were leaving the nut house when you left California. I‘m so sorry that Maryland is not much better. For what it’s worth, I moved to Tennessee in July, after 32 years in Maryland. Living here is like breathing air with oxygen in it, certainly for all things 2A but more than that. A cop here told me recently that he works for the citizens of Putnam County, and he meant it. I got a vanity license plate for my motorcycle that is the Gadsden flag. Bless you, brother, and good luck up there.

This is a horrid state and I am sorry for the BS and really life altering events you are going thru , no words could make it any better . And yet in our state we allow and have sanctuary counties that allow and welcome law breakers and MS-13 gang members and even protect them .
This is the stuff that pisses me off .

I am not a lawyer, but here is how I read what is going on...
You have a PC1203.4 relief, which is similar to Maryland's Probation Before Judgement (PBJ). In essence, your conviction was no longer a conviction once your probation was over. This would mean you are NOT prohibited under MD's law and the trooper made a mistake.
I would reach out to one of these MD 2A law attorneys and pay a couple hundred bucks for a consultation. I would think, they could clear this up pretty quickly.
Ed Hershon https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=229441
Britt Stouffer

I struggle to write so descriptively and clearly. That was a complicated story and it was an easy read.

These commie states like Maryland suck donkey balls.

Ciditad said:

I'm all for sensible gun legislation, but whoever wrote this section in the MD law is a terrible person.

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Your first mistake can be found in the first clause of this sentence. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't mean it's OK to "sensibly" infringe. Because, to the "terrible people" who wrote and passed MD's unconstitutional gun laws, they're the "sensible" ones.

Give them an unconstitutional inch and they'll take a mile plus your lunch money and kick sand in your face.

That said, it's my understanding that poly 80s and other home-built arms aren't subject to 77R.

What was the crime?

Ciditad said:

T
I'm all for sensible gun legislation, but whoever wrote this section in the MD law is a terrible person.

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You shouldn't be, once you realize that the long term goal of ALL of theses ******** feel good laws is no guns for anyone.

DP12 said:

That said, it's my understanding that poly 80s and other home-built arms aren't subject to 77R.

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They are not but he is a prohibited person in this state and possession would be illegal.

INMY01TA said:

They are not but he is a prohibited person in this state and possession would be illegal.

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NO. according to the CA penal code, in which someone with a 1204.3 relief has had their plea changed to not guilty and dismissed, he is not.

And while there is a provision in the law that 2a rights MAY not be restored, depending on the crime....

the fact that he was legally allowed to purchase regulated firearms in the state that produced the original charge proves that he is, in fact, NOT a prohibited person.

Soooooo. in what part of America do you live in where someone was declared NOT GUILTY but still has their constitutional rights taken away by some pissant state?

Or, as set forth in Madison v. Marbury:. "...an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void."

so, exactly, HOW is the OP prohibited? Is an arrest the legal equal of a conviction to you?

Boats said:

actually no. according to the CA penal code, in which someone with a 1204.3 relief has had their plea changed to not guilty and dismissed, he is not. And while there is a provision in the law that 2a rights MAY not be restored, depending on the crime....
the fact that he was legally allowed to purchase regulated firearms in the state that produced the original charge proves that he is, in fact, NOT a prohibited person.

Soooooo. in what part of America do you live in where someone was declared NOT GUILTY but still has their rights taken away?

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he’s prohibited in Md, not in California.