SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

Biggfoot44 · Jul 20, 2012

There is the thread in this section tracking the progress , and the various Interview threads. However those participating are a small sample of the entire state. So while we can't figure exact running percentages , we can generalize :

Slow and steady progress is being made , but there is still a huge number with nothing been done yet (including mine ) .

mrjam2jab · Jul 21, 2012

Rossi357 said:
It just occured to me.....Maybe they are processing the aps and getting them ready to issue permits if the stay if lifted. If the stay is not lifted, thay just sit on them till the outcome of the CA4 appeal.

Exactly. They could outright deny them all, but they aren't. They are completing the apps short of printing the permit. When the stay is lifted they just run the the piles printing the permits. They are already ahead of the "back log"...and the 2nd wave.

MDFF2008 · Jul 21, 2012

Rossi357 said:
It just occured to me.....Maybe they are processing the aps and getting them ready to issue permits if the stay if lifted. If the stay is not lifted, thay just sit on them till the outcome of the CA4 appeal.

Exactly what we believe they are doing, and have been trying to tell people.

eyesinpines · Jul 21, 2012

gprimr1 said:
Exactly what we believe they are doing, and have been trying to tell people.

That makes complete sense to me, and that's where I'd put my money!

However, despite all our resident experts assurances that Judge Legg will make some kind of decision re stay, I do believe that if he was going to lift it it would have been lifted by now.

martinithebun · Jul 21, 2012

mrjam2jab said:
Exactly. They could outright deny them all, but they aren't. They are completing the apps short of printing the permit. When the stay is lifted they just run the the piles printing the permits. They are already ahead of the "back log"...and the 2nd wave.

I think the working of the back log varies greatly across the state. For example, all my references were contact over 2 months ago but my interview hasn't been set up. I know of a few folks that have only gotten background checks completed, even though their apps went in prior to mine

Inigoes · Jul 21, 2012

martinithebun said:
I think the working of the back log varies greatly across the state. For example, all my references were contact over 2 months ago but my interview hasn't been set up. I know of a few folks that have only gotten background checks completed, even though their apps went in prior to mine

You do not need to have an interview to be investigated.

AssassinJ724 · Jul 21, 2012

We've waited 30+ years to have our 2A rights restored by the powers that be in this sh!t hole of a state. Don't get me wrong I like living here, I just don't like all the uptight liberal A-holes like OweMalley, Gansler, & Frosh who think they know what's best for everyone. What's wrong with waiting a "little" more as long as he gets it right. I believe the state failed to show they can win this case at CA4 based on the merits and Judge Legg WILL affirm his original decision on good and substantial ("the rights existence is all the reason he needs") and deny the stay. Patience...."good and substantial " WILL be nothing but a bad memory and CCWs will be issued by the thousands in the very near future.

Mr H · Jul 21, 2012

AssassinJ724 said:
We've waited 30+ years to have our 2A rights restored by the powers that be in this sh!t hole of a state. Don't get me wrong I like living here, I just don't like all the uptight liberal A-holes like OweMalley, Gansler, & Frosh who think they know what's best for everyone. What's wrong with waiting a "little" more as long as he gets it right. I believe the state failed to show they can win this case at CA4 based on the merits and Judge Legg WILL affirm his original decision on good and substantial ("the rights existence is all the reason he needs") and deny the stay. Patience...."good and substantial " WILL be nothing but a bad memory and CCWs will be issued by the thousands in the very near future.

I certainly hope you're correct on this, and yes... getting it right is certainly better than getting it right now.

Ransom · Jul 21, 2012

Hey guys, new member checking in here. I'm behind this 100%, I hope one day every citizen in good standing can get a CCW permit without question. I just got mine 2 weeks ago, but I've been following this case since news of it broke back in March.

mark1070 · Jul 21, 2012

Hey Ransom,

Curious -- what was your good and substantial reason?

smokey · Jul 21, 2012

AssassinJ724 said:
We've waited 30+ years to have our 2A rights restored by the powers that be in this sh!t hole of a state. Don't get me wrong I like living here, I just don't like all the uptight liberal A-holes like OweMalley, Gansler, & Frosh who think they know what's best for everyone. What's wrong with waiting a "little" more as long as he gets it right. I believe the state failed to show they can win this case at CA4 based on the merits and Judge Legg WILL affirm his original decision on good and substantial ("the rights existence is all the reason he needs") and deny the stay. Patience...."good and substantial " WILL be nothing but a bad memory and CCWs will be issued by the thousands in the very near future.

I'm personally just hoping the stay is lifted, 4th circuit doesn't grant anothe one, and they are forced to start issuing permits before the next legislative session. The more people obtain permits before they try to change the laws and institute different application and training requirements, the better. You all know it's coming.

Ransom · Jul 21, 2012

mark1070 said:
Hey Ransom,

Curious -- what was your good and substantial reason?

dum jale gard

and a few documented threats from MD's finest citizens.

yellowsled · Jul 21, 2012

nothing dum about that. :thumbsup:

rob · Jul 21, 2012

Rossi357 said:
It just occured to me.....Maybe they are processing the aps and getting them ready to issue permits if the stay if lifted. If the stay is not lifted, thay just sit on them till the outcome of the CA4 appeal.

I wouldn't put it past the MD Govt to get them ready to print so they can mail denials DATED the day BEFORE the appeal is lifted? That way they can still deny all of Frosh's Nuts and not piss off the court.

Rob

mark1070 · Jul 21, 2012

rob said:
I wouldn't put it past the MD Govt to get them ready to print so they can mail denials DATED the day BEFORE the appeal is lifted? That way they can still deny all of Frosh's Nuts and not piss off the court.

Rob

tnx!

dlmcbm · Jul 23, 2012

rob said:
I wouldn't put it past the MD Govt to get them ready to print so they can mail denials DATED the day BEFORE the appeal is lifted? That way they can still deny all of Frosh's Nuts and not piss off the court.

Rob

I have thought that also but I think they would have a big fight on there hands and the review board would not like that. They would get VERY busy.

Merlin · Jul 23, 2012

dlmcbm said:
I have thought that also but I think they would have a big fight on there hands and the review board would not like that. They would get VERY busy.

I understand the review board is, or should be a impartial third party. However I would not be surprised if the review board dose not lean toward the MSP 99% of the time.

That's just like your human resources at work. When a given worker has an issue or complaint about their management they can often go to their human resources for help. But 99% of the time the human resources will back up management even what management is wrong. They should be an impartial third party, but very seldom are.

Look at Mr. Woollard . Who is to say that he would no longer be in any danger. No one can say that. If he was in danger once that is always a chance he would be in danger again. Up to the day everyone that had ever placed him in danger was dead and in the ground.

But the review board went right with whatever the MSP had to say because it wasn't their problem. It was Mr. Wollard's problem.

Maestro Pistolero · Jul 23, 2012

Woollard

Patrick · Jul 23, 2012

Merlin said:
I understand the review board is, or should be a impartial third party. However I would not be surprised if the review board dose not lean toward the MSP 99% of the time.

...

Governor. The review board is appointed by, and operates at the behest of, the governor. MSP does not control them, and they are not MSP employees or appointees. Under the law, the review board is designed to be wholly separate from the MSP.

I agree with your sentiment (not unique to you, Merlin), but I keep picking nits because I think they will soon matter. We need to stop pointing at MSP (until they give us reason), and start pointing at the governor and the legislature.

Again - if things go the way we want in the short term - we will need to all understand whose feet are in the boots stepping on our rights. Might as well start the focus now, because you can bet they are lacing up as we type...

Merlin · Jul 23, 2012

Patrick said:
Governor. The review board is appointed by, and operates at the behest of, the governor. MSP does not control them, and they are not MSP employees or appointees. Under the law, the review board is designed to be wholly separate from the MSP.

I agree with your sentiment (not unique to you, Merlin), but I keep picking nits because I think they will soon matter. We need to stop pointing at MSP (until they give us reason), and start pointing at the governor and the legislature.

Again - if things go the way we want in the short term - we will need to all understand whose feet are in the boots stepping on our rights. Might as well start the focus now, because you can bet they are lacing up as we type...

Hi Patrick,

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I just stated the review board gives allot of weight to any MSP decision against the granting of any given permit going in to a review. I was just pointing out for this review board to over turn any decision the MSP made the reasoning would have to be monumental.

I would not think for a second that if you or I were to appeal to the review board if our ccw was turned down, that the playing field is level being heard by an impartial board.

The MSP and RB all work for the same state. A state that does not like ccw's. They all do as they are told as you pointed out many times they all work for the Governor.

SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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