NateIU10
Ultimate Member
One in stock at the moment. $1899.99 plus tax. FH has been removed and replaced with a thread protector.
Galil ACE SAR Rifle in stock
- Thread starter NateIU10
- Start date
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ARMatt
Active Member
can you enlighten me on the laws of MD please? Im really confused I know all ARs post 2013 are illegal unless HBAR, but what AK pattern rifles? or 300BO , 6.8sp? And a galil doesn't qualify as an ak?
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
So their law had the intended effect then!
Basically (for rifles):
There is a list of what used to be "regulated firearms." These were rifles that you had to do extra state paperwork (a 77r, same form we do for handguns here) and a waiting period to buy them. These rifles are all now banned, by name.
For rifles not on the list, there are two tests that determine if a rifle is banned for being a "copycat assault long gun." They are:
1) any centerfire semi-automatic rifle with an overall length of less than 29"
2) any centerfire, semi-automatic rifle that accepts detachable magazines and has more than one of a) a folding (not collapsing) stock, b) a flash hider, c) a grenade launcher.
If a rifle fails either of those tests, then it is banned for being a "copycat."
The AK47 in all forms is banned because of the name list.
The AR-15 is banned because of the name list, BUT there was an exception on that list for HBAR ARs because they were used for target competition, so they're still legal. (The law specifically mentions the "Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15 Sporter H–BAR rifle;" but the MSP have always deemed that the HBAR exception applies to all HBARs because they're copies of the Colt.)
The Galil is NOT an AK-47. The Galil AR and ARM are banned by name by the list, but other Galil rifles are not banned unless they fail one of the tests.
As far as alternate calibers for ARs go:
There are two reasons why they may not be banned. The first is that on the AR platform, anything .30 caliber or larger is basically an HBAR by default - due to the bore size, there isn't enough extra material in the barrel to make the lightening sections or the cut for an M203. Secondly (and this one may be the actual technical reason) is that the MSP has decided that in order to be banned by the name list, a rifle must have complete parts interchangeability with a banned rifle. It's not just the cosmetic similarity that matters.
Nice write up. I just copied and sent it to myself as an email.
ARMatt
Active Member
So their law had the intended effect then!
Basically (for rifles):
There is a list of what used to be "regulated firearms." These were rifles that you had to do extra state paperwork (a 77r, same form we do for handguns here) and a waiting period to buy them. These rifles are all now banned, by name.
For rifles not on the list, there are two tests that determine if a rifle is banned for being a "copycat assault long gun." They are:
1) any centerfire semi-automatic rifle with an overall length of less than 29"
2) any centerfire, semi-automatic rifle that accepts detachable magazines and has more than one of a) a folding (not collapsing) stock, b) a flash hider, c) a grenade launcher.
If a rifle fails either of those tests, then it is banned for being a "copycat."
The AK47 in all forms is banned because of the name list.
The AR-15 is banned because of the name list, BUT there was an exception on that list for HBAR ARs because they were used for target competition, so they're still legal. (The law specifically mentions the "Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15 Sporter H–BAR rifle;" but the MSP have always deemed that the HBAR exception applies to all HBARs because they're copies of the Colt.)
The Galil is NOT an AK-47. The Galil AR and ARM are banned by name by the list, but other Galil rifles are not banned unless they fail one of the tests.
As far as alternate calibers for ARs go:
There are two reasons why they may not be banned. The first is that on the AR platform, anything .30 caliber or larger is basically an HBAR by default - due to the bore size, there isn't enough extra material in the barrel to make the lightening sections or the cut for an M203. Secondly (and this one may be the actual technical reason) is that the MSP has decided that in order to be banned by the name list, a rifle must have complete parts interchangeability with a banned rifle. It's not just the cosmetic similarity that matters.
Great information sir thank you ! I'm enlightened
PowPow
Where's the beef?
Where does parts interchangeability come into play? For example, many of us would love to get a Century C308, but the MDSP says it's is a copy of the HK91. However, you can't put HK91 parts into a C308 (and vice-versa) and retain a functioning rifle. Also, the C308 is not less than 29" and doesn't fail the feature tests.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
The MSP website says a ton of stuff is banned that actually isn't. Nate can elaborate on it more, but as part of a lawsuit that Engage had against the MSP, they said, in writing, that the list on the website is "advice" and isn't legally binding, because they know that it's wrong. Their guidance was that you should ask the FFL or the manufacturer if a given rifle is banned here or not. So, technically, if you find an FFL that's willing to decide that the C308 isn't banned then you could buy one from them, I believe. Nate would have to clarify that one though because I don't know if there was exact guidance given on the parts interchangeability thing.
PowPow
Where's the beef?
So, an MSP bulletin talked about parts interchangeability for copycat determination, not the statute. So, if the statute is silent on the matter, then it really is <29" and semi-auto, mags + two features.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
Well, yes and no.
The unfortunate thing with a great many of the gun laws in Maryland is that the enforcement is left to the MSP, and they've just willy-nilly decided a lot of stuff that *probably* wouldn't hold up in court (and in fact they've outright backed down from a lot of it when called on it like Nate did with the suit I mentioned above) but the real world fact of the matter is that nobody wants to be the test case.
As far as the statute goes:
SB281 says that an "Assault Long Gun" (which is banned) are:
§ 5–101(R)(2) says that:
And then it goes on to list a bunch of rifles by name. So the operative part of this as far as this particular discussion goes is this:
What constitutes "a copy" as defined in § 5–101(R)(2)? The statute itself is silent on what "a copy" is, so it's up to MSP and or the Attorney General's office to decide what "a copy" of an Assault Long Gun is. For a while, there was an issue where they were trying to say that things like the GSG-5 were banned because it was "a copy" of an MP5, even though one is rimfire and one is centerfire, they're not mechanically the same at all, etc. They're just cosmetically similar. So eventually they came up with the guidance that being "a copy" required parts interchangeability. How much parts interchangeability I don't know.
And this is what I fear might lead to a Massachusetts-style declaration from the AG's office.
AG ruling on copies FWIW.
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Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
The ACR is "banned" because the MSP are reading the law wrong. They are interpreting the "Bushmaster Rifle" on the list of named banned assault rifles as "any rifle made by Bushmaster," when it actually refers to a specific model of rifle called "The Bushmaster" which was made by Gwinn firearms.
Bushmasters (i.e. rifles made by the Bushmaster company) should not be anymore "banned" than any other rifle that's not on the named list, but the MSP are doing their usual game of overreaching their authority by misinterpreting the law and waiting for someone to be the test case.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
One more in today, with two on the way for next week.
There is no way this could be legally binding. Bushmaster the company has made many different types of rifles with different parts and operating systems. Unless the clause says, "all rifles made by the Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC company" this type of thinking couldnt be enforced.
Is MSP actually saying all rifles made by the bushmaster company are banned? I see an HBAR in their 2016 catalog that could add to our AR options.
- Sep 16, 2008
- 1,006
The law and MSP rulings. Both can be as inconvenient. A business needs to play the game. Can't make any money while you are closed waiting for a court ruling.
The MSP rulings are not legally binding, and are totally incorrect many times. If they are incorrect, they are incorrect.
Over the past few days I have seen some rulings that are absolutely shocking and totally wrong, including one or two that have gone our way.
Perhaps they should actually include people who know something about firearms in this process.
danb
dont be a dumbass
The MSP put the Galil ACE on the banned list on 10/18 (presumably because it a copy of the Galil**) - except not really. Among other things, the action is redesigned and the trigger is different. 
**ETA: Actually, it could be that they listed the wrong reason: Technically, the ACE is a "copycat" not a copy of an enumerated weapon. It has three evil features. Remove one, GTG.
**ETA: Actually, it could be that they listed the wrong reason: Technically, the ACE is a "copycat" not a copy of an enumerated weapon. It has three evil features. Remove one, GTG.
