Coping With Concealed Carry

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  • Josey Wales

    Active Member
    Aug 4, 2010
    422
    Thank you 2SAM22 for the above posting of that article. Its nice to know that policemen and others are getting some sort of information stating that they need to think about what is happening when we carry. A CCW permit is truly a double edged sword. But if I must take the risk of getting shot by an officer every time I strap on a weapon then its just not worth it to me. There are many police out there and I can not blame them if they are looking to find nut jobs out on the street due to drugs or other things and stressful times now a days.

    I agree with Minuteman.

    Although I think the police did handle it well probably because they were on tape but,...they were shaking him down in a way and that is not right either.

    Over the summer when I was in Delaware I had a guy tell me that if the police saw you carrying a gun they would arrest you based upon you carrying a knife if you had that on your side clipped in your pants pocket. From what he said they did this to two friends of his in the past couple of years just to get something on them and then have your CC right revoked. Has anyone else heard of this ?
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    if you are CC properly they should never know that you are carrying unless you have to draw in self defense (or unless you are approached and required to inform)

    I'm not afmiliar with knife laws in delaware
     

    jaywade

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2009
    1,464
    Leesburg, VA
    I agree, the police reaction to seeing "man with a gun" is to be expected, just as Vince stated. You can't fault the police for exercising great caution, we wouldn't expect it any other way, or do any differently ourselves.

    Take this guy for example, at first I really didn't like the way he deals with the police (like not hanging up the phone, not giving the police officer his identification, giving only the minimum required information, not really cooperating). Then his friend shows up flailing his arms and even at one point waves his hand in front of the backup officers face to get his attention... all bad. This is a demonstration of sorts. The officer handles it very well, but I do have to wonder how much effect having everything recorded and several witnesses had on their behavior.

    After visiting Ridley's site and watching a few of his videos (he's really annoying, it wasn't easy), I think I get what he's trying to do, and although I agree in basic principle, the way they are doing it makes all of us lawful gun owners look stupid. Just my 2 cents, what do you think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI



    I'm not crazy about that guy however I will say this I don't live there so I have no idea if "that" kind of thing is needed

    since living here in va I've had a couple encounters w/ LEO's 1 was a traffic, where the officer did ask "why do you carry" took a glance of my permit and that was the end of it, in a 7-11 when carrying my daughter my shirt had been lifted up by her legs, he just made mention that I was showing ask if I had a permit but didn't ask to see it( I was shocked by this but open carry is legal here) and once in a park by a resource officer I was printing he asked if I if/what I had on me, asked if I had a permit but then he also didn't ask for it.... so so far here in loudoun co va, LEO's seem "at ease" with it
     

    jaywade

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2009
    1,464
    Leesburg, VA
    I hope you responded, "Same reason you do." :thumbsup:


    I was taken back by the commet,my response was "come again" he responded "why do you feel the need to carry? , do you feel you are in danger do you carry around large amounts of cash?" I pointed to my daughter in the back seat and simply said "you or one of you fellow officer's are not always at my side, so I feel it my responsibility and quite frankly sir my right to be able to defend her my wife and my self"

    he said nothing else on the matter
     

    Shinobi

    Member
    Jan 4, 2011
    84
    Calvert County
    Nice read. Maybe the police who belong to this forum can help spread the word to their colleagues.

    When you encounter someone, sense their intent. A ball point pen can make the same size hole in your trachea a bullet does, and a ball point pen doesn't run out of ammo. Yet you hand a ball point pen to a motorist to sign his traffic ticket. You wear a nice sharp steel ball point pen in your shirt pocket right under your throat. You don't think twice about it. Yet you freak out if someone has a pocket knife or a pistol? When you yourself bring a pistol to every encounter? It isn't the presence of a weapon that matters. Weapons are always present. It is the intent of an individual to use the weapon that you should be able to sense.

    In a free society, the police don't get to have a monopoly on force. Police states are very good for police, but they suck for everyone else. Resist the urge to live in a police state. Accept that you don't get to totally dominate everyone you encounter.
     
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    Shinobi

    Member
    Jan 4, 2011
    84
    Calvert County
    Exactly!

    I was taken back by the commet,my response was "come again" he responded "why do you feel the need to carry? , do you feel you are in danger do you carry around large amounts of cash?" I pointed to my daughter in the back seat and simply said "you or one of you fellow officer's are not always at my side, so I feel it my responsibility and quite frankly sir my right to be able to defend her my wife and my self"

    he said nothing else on the matter

    In Maryland, we don't have the right to use lethal force to defend property. If somebody grabs your bag of cash and runs off and you shoot him in the back, you're going to jail for murder. Lethal force is only justified to protect life.

    So why can a jeweler get a permit or hire an armed guard to protect his jewels? It's illogical.

    Your daughter is worth $2 million even by the Federal Aviation Administration's cost-benefit analysis. If you were riding around with two million bucks in your back seat, they wouldn't ask why you have a permit.
     
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    sandbanger

    how's it going eisenhower
    Dec 14, 2010
    1,596
    I was taken back by the commet,my response was "come again" he responded "why do you feel the need to carry? , do you feel you are in danger do you carry around large amounts of cash?" I pointed to my daughter in the back seat and simply said "you or one of you fellow officer's are not always at my side, so I feel it my responsibility and quite frankly sir my right to be able to defend her my wife and my self"

    he said nothing else on the matter

    did he ask you for your freedom of speech card also?
     

    jaywade

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2009
    1,464
    Leesburg, VA
    did he ask you for your freedom of speech card also?

    I love living here in va but I have to point out I do live in NoVA.... there is a anti-gun community here, they don't have big numbers but they are here, of couse the neat thing about Nova is while you do have the anti's you also have pistol packing soccer mom's :party29:
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,810
    Do a search for open carry stories and you will find many BAD encounters with LEO that either, do not know the law or think that they should be the only ones that have the right to carry. There are also GOOD encounters on the sights but as a rule they are many more BAD ones than GOOD one. Of course BAD news travles faster than GOOD.

    These stories are in states that have had OC for a long time and we in MD will be many years from the normalization of the mere peasant having a gun w/o a hassle.

    Should MD be forced to allow OC I was planning on contacting the leadership of the different police agencies in HArford county and inform them of the law. I do not know if they would listen but I will be trying.

    Youtube is also a great resource for actual filmed encounters of police harrassing OC.

    The thing I find most commen is the LEO telling the OC, "you should not do this, I know it is legal but you will be harrassed"

    If I can find it I will post the link but my favorite quote is " I am not detaining you because you have a gun, I am detaining you because you have a gun and wont give me your name"

    WTF.

    NOBODY
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    ^

    Is entirely legal. In most places you are obligated to provide a name (not an ID) to a peace officer when he asks for it.
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,810
    ^

    Is entirely legal. In most places you are obligated to provide a name (not an ID) to a peace officer when he asks for it.

    From what I have read Stop and ID is only required when the LEO has reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime Has be, is about to be or is being committed. The courts have upheld that OC is not RAS and therefore Stop and ID is not valid. If you are not commiting a crime they can not DEMAND or Charge you with not ID'ing.

    IANAL

    NOBODY
     

    navycraig

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 3, 2009
    1,359
    St. Mary's
    In Maryland, we don't have the right to use lethal force to defend property. If somebody grabs your bag of cash and runs off and you shoot him in the back, you're going to jail for murder. Lethal force is only justified to protect life.

    So why can a jeweler get a permit or hire an armed guard to protect his jewels? It's illogical.

    Your daughter is worth $2 million even by the Federal Aviation Administration's cost-benefit analysis. If you were riding around with two million bucks in your back seat, they wouldn't ask why you have a permit.

    I don't have it at my finger tips, but I do believe that you can defend "real" property; your house, your land, etc. Personal property, NO! Real property and anyone on/in that property, YES!
     

    Les Gawlik

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 2, 2009
    3,384
    Remember that we are in the midst of a revolution in thought. For as long as I can remember, the consensus was that law-abiding citizens are protected by the police and the government, and have absolutely no reason to own a firearm. We would all be so much safer if there were no guns at all in private hands, because then anyone with a gun would be a criminal, and the authorities could just throw them in jail. This kind of thinking would appeal to law enforcement, because no thought or discretion would have to be used if an armed citizen were encountered. If you have a gun, you're off to jail. If you're in WalMart and see someone printing, dial 911, and then he's off to jail.

    Our collective attitude regarding arms and self-defense is changing. Like any revolution, there will be casualties. Injustices will be suffered by those who are on the vanguard. We have a lot of well-entrenched thought (or lack thereof) which will have to be overcome before our rights are fully restored. In Maryland, that time will probably not come in my lifetime. But the tide is turning in our direction, and we will not be stopped.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    From what I have read Stop and ID is only required when the LEO has reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime Has be, is about to be or is being committed. The courts have upheld that OC is not RAS and therefore Stop and ID is not valid. If you are not commiting a crime they can not DEMAND or Charge you with not ID'ing.

    IANAL

    NOBODY

    I was under the impression that you had to provide a name, but not an actual ID. I could very well be wrong though.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    I think that you're on to something here.

    Remember that we are in the midst of a revolution in thought. For as long as I can remember, the consensus was that law-abiding citizens are protected by the police and the government, and have absolutely no reason to own a firearm. We would all be so much safer if there were no guns at all in private hands, because then anyone with a gun would be a criminal, and the authorities could just throw them in jail. This kind of thinking would appeal to law enforcement, because no thought or discretion would have to be used if an armed citizen were encountered. If you have a gun, you're off to jail. If you're in WalMart and see someone printing, dial 911, and then he's off to jail.

    Our collective attitude regarding arms and self-defense is changing. Like any revolution, there will be casualties. Injustices will be suffered by those who are on the vanguard. We have a lot of well-entrenched thought (or lack thereof) which will have to be overcome before our rights are fully restored. In Maryland, that time will probably not come in my lifetime. But the tide is turning in our direction, and we will not be stopped.

    Now that O'Malley has admitted that MD is $1.6B in the hole, hard decisions are being made regarding public safety. And, realiizing that cutting funding for police will undermine the legislature's predjudices against concealed carry, I can see that public sentiments will change also. I agree that it won't happen anytme soon, but if there is a bellweather of where this could potentially go, watch what happens in NJ, specifically Camden. Let's hope that MD, and specifically Baltimore, never gets as bad off as NJ, and Camden.
     

    Southern_Boy

    Member
    Apr 13, 2009
    37
    ... We have a lot of well-entrenched thought (or lack thereof) which will have to be overcome before our rights are fully restored. In Maryland, that time will probably not come in my lifetime....

    Which is why I cannot WAIT to get out of this "People's Republik."

    At this point I'm leaning heavily in the direction of TX, for a number of reasons -- the biggest of which is that it's perhaps the only state in the US capable of being fully self-sufficient, has a proud history of being an independent Republic, and the Constitutional/Treaty right to secede was explicitly included in their joining of the union.

    With the way things are going, it seems to me that collapse of our Fed.gov is inevitable - a question at this point only of WHEN.

    Hopefully it will hold off beyond June of 2012 - at which point my youngest daughter will graduate HS and I hope to be on my way.

    I'd happily stay if I thought there was ANY chance of this PRMd resembling a free state in the forseeable future, but I've seen nothing to support that delusion in the 4.5 decades of life in this hell-hole.

    Dang shame...
     

    LARRY

    Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    68
    I think you may have misread it then. When a police officer comes upon someone who is armed. Their first instinct is to protect their ass because that person could kill them quickly. So, initially, yes, little distinction is made regarding the officers safety. The difference is the criminal will do and make stupid decisions while the law abiding, legally armed citizen will probably use and abundance of caution in following the officers requests.

    Split second reactions have to be made. This article is warning both police and armed citizens to be careful and make appropriate decisions.
    Personally, I'd prefer the responsible, law abiding citizens of this state be armed. They are the GOOD GUYS!
    I agree! although I'm not a cop nor would I want to be! I am a Md permit holder and I try to put myself in there shoe's (cops) and its a tough situation to be in. I've seen some permit holders printing what seems almost on purpose! If i was asked by anyone if I was carrying because of a print I would view that as a failure on my part.
     

    edhallor

    Active Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    749
    Aberdeen
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but in a state like MD, if we became "Shall Issue" many officers wouldn't know quite how to react, at least early on. I dread being pulled over for speeding (I do tend to drive a bit on the fast side) and being asked if there is a gun in the car. Of course there is. I almost always carry. Where? on my right hip, or small of back, depending on the holster. depite having a permit, I imagine myself being frisked on the shoulder of I-95 or in handcuffs. I would certainly not resist. It may be just my imagination running wild. I am the last guy in the world who would consider shooting anyone who wasn't trying to kill me first...much less shoot a police officer doing his job.

    As folks who choose to carry a firearm, we have a big responsibility. We can no longer give the finger to the guy who cut us off, slam on our brakes when being tailgated, be rude when the nice lady in front of us in the express lane pays for her 47 items in pennies. There can be no indication that we are looking for trouble. I think those in law enforcement have a hard enough job as it is. I can understand any reservations those in the field may have about dealing with an armed citizen. Thankfully, most are in favor of the idea.
    A lot of this is common sense. As a Retired Police Officer I also carry. I'm 6'2" 225 Lbs have a beard an stach and also occasionally get stopped.

    If Night I turn on the overhead as soon as I see the lights, drop the Drivers Window, Pull well off on the shoulder, don't reach for anything or try to put anything away. I put both hands at 12 O'Clock on the steering Wheel and wait for the Officer to approach the vehicle. As soon as the Officer is near the Window I say in a monotone voice loud enough to be heard " Sir. I am a Retired Police Officer, I have a Handgun Carry Permit. My Weapon is in a Holster on my Belt on my right hand side what would you like me to do?"

    Works most times, no problems although, and there is always as although in these war stories. Had an Officer stop me on a Road in Maryland (Agency Withheld) stop me at Night, I did all of the above and he freaked and I do mean friggen assed freaked! he was screaming as he attempted to retrieve his sidearm, lost control of it one time but caught it before it hit the ground, began screaming orders "Get out of the car, no no stay in the car, put your hands on your head, don't move. dropped his flashlight, bent for it but popped back up without it. I could see the Pimples on his face as I saw the Glock pointed at my head (I think a couple of the pimples actually popped).

    I froze, never took my hands off the wheel and repeated over and over " I'm a Retired Police Officer" I remember thinking to myself "this guys going to shoot me" It was not until after a Back up Unit arrived, an older Officer who had me put my hands out of the Window, cuffed me, opened my car door had me step out, removed my Weapon and asked where my ID was.

    True story, and I was never so glad to be cuffed. After it was all over I asked that little snot, how as a trained Police Officer did you let this get so out of hand? his reply I threatened him. What (It wasn't really What that I said) but his reasoning was he could see what a big guy I was, I did not look like a Police, he thought I was lying and I was Armed.

    Here's a case I did everything right and still came close to getting shot. I know what your thinking, if anyone was going home that night it was going to be me, Ya I admit it I had the same thought. Did I mention this is a true story, as true as my Christian Belief.

    As we approach a time when the Honest Citizen may well be able to Carry if He/She desires it becomes a realization to me that it may well be the Citizen and not the Police Officer that will be called upon to be the calming influence in Police / Citizen Handgun encounters.

    Damm that was one long story to make a two line Point. Anyway I think it was important to have a former Police Officer make the point that this is going to be a two way street and we cannot assume Police will be the only ones that will need to change, least a terrible mistake be made as has occurred many times in other States.

    Lets make Maryland the first State to move into Carry without any Citizens or Police losing their lives in an unfortunate shooting.

    Later,

    Ed
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    I didn't find it long and it was an enjoyable story. Glad you didn't get shot. Poor kid was just too green. Be interesting for you to run into him again today and see if he had a cooler head on his shoulders.
     

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