shotgun for boy scouts

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  • hammer67

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2016
    230
    Ellicott City
    My son is in scouts and I am the multi-discipline instructor and RSO. Took them shotgun shooting last weekend. I took my winchester 1400 SA 12/28", and borrowed a friends Remington 11-48 SA 12/28" with 13" LOP, and Remington 870 youth pump 20/21". had X-light target loads (1oz 1180fps for 12, and 7/8oz 980fps for 20). The 11-48 with cut down LOP worked well, but little hard for some to handle weight. The 870 great weight and short and some liked it better. I can't really tell difference in felt recoil. I was thinking of getting something for my son, that would be good for the scout outings. Here are some thoughts:

    Weatherby SA-08, either youth with 13" LOP and 20/24" or 12/26" and buy youth stock to fit, put adult back on later.

    Remington 11-87, either compact with 20/21" and adj LOP, or a 12 or 20 with 26" barrel and then buy compact stock for now.

    TR Imports youth 20/24" with 13" LOP (but have to buy at Dick's!) Turkish made I believe, as is weatherby.

    I am concerned about a 21" barrel in 11-87 compact. 24" in Weatherby better, but if can handle 26" I think get better long term use out of it?

    Same thought on 12 vs 20. I used online calculator and the difference in recoil energy between very light loads -low recoil 26gram, 980fps in 12, and 7/8oz 980fps in 20, taking into account rough weights of guns, is negligible. So think get more long term use out of a 12, being able to go to up in loads in future.

    problem is no-one has these guns to test. no sa-08 or 11-87 at dicks or bass pro. Some aren't even available and require me to purchase the youth/compact stock and add to adult gun. Any thoughts on what I wrote and does anyone know where I can see, possibly shoot some guns? I am member Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore. Maybe one of the clubs has shoot where I could drop in just to have son try some out.
     

    Mack C-85

    R.I.P.
    Jan 22, 2014
    6,522
    Littlestown, PA
    My son is in scouts and I am the multi-discipline instructor and RSO. Took them shotgun shooting last weekend. I took my winchester 1400 SA 12/28", and borrowed a friends Remington 11-48 SA 12/28" with 13" LOP, and Remington 870 youth pump 20/21". had X-light target loads (1oz 1180fps for 12, and 7/8oz 980fps for 20). The 11-48 with cut down LOP worked well, but little hard for some to handle weight. The 870 great weight and short and some liked it better. I can't really tell difference in felt recoil. I was thinking of getting something for my son, that would be good for the scout outings. Here are some thoughts:



    Weatherby SA-08, either youth with 13" LOP and 20/24" or 12/26" and buy youth stock to fit, put adult back on later.



    Remington 11-87, either compact with 20/21" and adj LOP, or a 12 or 20 with 26" barrel and then buy compact stock for now.



    TR Imports youth 20/24" with 13" LOP (but have to buy at Dick's!) Turkish made I believe, as is weatherby.



    I am concerned about a 21" barrel in 11-87 compact. 24" in Weatherby better, but if can handle 26" I think get better long term use out of it?



    Same thought on 12 vs 20. I used online calculator and the difference in recoil energy between very light loads -low recoil 26gram, 980fps in 12, and 7/8oz 980fps in 20, taking into account rough weights of guns, is negligible. So think get more long term use out of a 12, being able to go to up in loads in future.



    problem is no-one has these guns to test. no sa-08 or 11-87 at dicks or bass pro. Some aren't even available and require me to purchase the youth/compact stock and add to adult gun. Any thoughts on what I wrote and does anyone know where I can see, possibly shoot some guns? I am member Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore. Maybe one of the clubs has shoot where I could drop in just to have son try some out.

    I'm also a Scout Rifle/Shotgun Merit Badge Councillor.....

    I would shy away from anything less than 24", since most clays ranges restrict lengths less than that.

    One of the biggest issues I've had is Scouts that are not physically capable to handle the shotgun. You have to be really careful, a small kid gets rapped a couple of times and he'll never want to try again.

    In a pump, I would stick with Remington or Mossberg...lots of options in after market stuff for either.

    In a semi, Remington is probably your best bet.

    P.S. This is based on your need to stay in the lower $$$ range....'cause I'm a Browning guy, and would tell you Berretta, too. Try 'em both and get what fits you best.

    Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
     

    jjbduke2004

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2008
    1,764
    Morris Oblast, NJ SSR
    I would shy away from anything less than 24", since most clays ranges restrict lengths less than that.

    I think most ranges understand that youth models are shorter than standard. I remember going through a "firearm inspection" at PGC Trap and Skeet over a decade ago. They were checking to make sure it wasn't pistol grip only or below a certain length (like 24 or 26"). I asked what if I had a youth/ladies model? "We allow youth and ladies to shoot those."

    OP, I think BSA recommends gas-operated autoloaders when possible, since they are known to soak up recoil more.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,785
    Forum member Zorros at one point had one he was looking to give away for this type of purpose.
     

    hammer67

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2016
    230
    Ellicott City
    yes, I wanted a semi auto to reduce recoil.

    I have thought about a beretta or browning. Much more of an investment so would want something that I could use. Even before scout stuff, I was considering using instructor discount to get A400. I would get an xcel., 30" or 32". too long for boys. Don't think wife would like me getting multi-target, LOL.

    Beretta does have A400 lite synthetic compact. 12.5 LOP adjustable to 14. 24" or 26". has neat system where you unscrew choke, put in a 2" barrel extension. So the 24 can become 26, and the 26 becomes 28. with instructor discount about $1100.

    Beretta also has 12 gauge A300 outlander synthetic LOP 13-14.5 in 24" and 28". Much cheaper at around $600. doesn't have the barrel extension feature.

    browning silver hunter micro midas in 12-24/26 and 20-24/26. 13" LOP $863-$916.

    bass pro near me has A300 28" in stock. may have son try it with 13" LOP. Wish had 24" to try too.
     

    Mack C-85

    R.I.P.
    Jan 22, 2014
    6,522
    Littlestown, PA
    If you decide to go the B gun route....try them both before you decide. Your going to love one and like the other. Brownings fit me to a tee, Berretta not so much. I was an instructor at PG for awhile, and had plenty of opportunities to shoot Berrettas, and I really wish they fit me better. I could get it fitted, but why spend a couple of extra hundred $$$, when Browning fits out of the box. The opposite could be very true for you. Good luck, either will serve you, your son, and probably his son extremely well!!

    P.S. I have three Browning Semis and an O/U in my safe.

    Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
     

    Sundazes

    My brain hurts
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 13, 2006
    21,296
    Arkham
    As MACK said a lot of younger kids just can't physically handle the gun. We always bring a single shot 410 (HR Topper) for the smaller ones. The recoil is significantly lower and the shotgun is much lighter and easier to hold. It works out really well. Some of the bigger guys like it as well. Although I a am not a counselor, I am an instructor, and RSO.
     

    ar15dave

    AR15Dave
    Jun 10, 2008
    2,226
    Monrovia, MD
    I am a Scout Rifle/Shotgun MB counselor as well. I have two Mossberg SA-20 20ga shotguns that I use for the Shotgun Shooting MB. Scouts love them and they work really well. Just my .02 cents.
     

    hammer67

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2016
    230
    Ellicott City
    lot of fellow scout instructors here. thank you all. We need to de-program all the bad press about guns and teach them safety, and that shooting is fun! My dad had topper 410. When he passed i ended up giving it to my sister. Isn't it hard to hit anything with 410? Never shot one.

    The Mossberg might work. Cost About same as that TR import, but better known name. Not in stock locally! That is recurring theme, not able to at least hold them.

    Mack C-85, So what fit better on Browning? I am 6'1" 185 with long neck. I have beretta 686 field o/u (not silver pigeon). I wasn't hitting much. Pattern board showed shooting high -off board at 40 yards. Since you pre mount for trap or skeet, i just put my head down more on comb so eye even with rib.
    worked, on pattern board and on range. Wouldnt work for hunting and having to mount quickly, since my eye up too high on "natural" mount. Guess i need shim to drop the comb.
     

    ar15dave

    AR15Dave
    Jun 10, 2008
    2,226
    Monrovia, MD
    Get ahold of Hog Sniper. He has a store in Hanover, PA. Got mine from him. Great prices and nice guy to deal with. He can usually get one in for you fairly quickly.
     

    Mack C-85

    R.I.P.
    Jan 22, 2014
    6,522
    Littlestown, PA
    lot of fellow scout instructors here. thank you all. We need to de-program all the bad press about guns and teach them safety, and that shooting is fun! My dad had topper 410. When he passed i ended up giving it to my sister. Isn't it hard to hit anything with 410? Never shot one.



    The Mossberg might work. Cost About same as that TR import, but better known name. Not in stock locally! That is recurring theme, not able to at least hold them.



    Mack C-85, So what fit better on Browning? I am 6'1" 185 with long neck. I have beretta 686 field o/u (not silver pigeon). I wasn't hitting much. Pattern board showed shooting high -off board at 40 yards. Since you pre mount for trap or skeet, i just put my head down more on comb so eye even with rib.

    worked, on pattern board and on range. Wouldnt work for hunting and having to mount quickly, since my eye up too high on "natural" mount. Guess i need shim to drop the comb.

    .410 is really an experts round, but lots of kids have lived through starting off with one.
    I've shot quite a few Skeet rounds with .410 My Dad has a Browning four barrel set (12,20,28, & .410) that also fits me well. It's fun to shoot, but it is a challenge.

    Hammer67...I have to press my face down hard on the comb of a Berretta to hit anything, the Brownings just shoot where I look.

    Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
     

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