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  • asdaven

    Active Member
    Oct 30, 2013
    272
    Maryland
    Self-defense purposes aside, which caliber semi-auto PCC performs the best at punching paper and hitting targets at distance excluding magnum calibers? Mainly comparing the 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, and 10mm. I have a 9mm so far. Debating getting another caliber PCC. The 9mm does pretty well out of a 16" barrel especially with +P loads. Just curious how the other calibers stack up as far as accuracy.

    The .45 ACP would be the next obvious choice but the .45 drops quite a bit and I dont know if it gains anything from a 16" barrel like the 9mm does. I can tell with mine the rounds shot from the carbine have quite a bit more power. Everybody says 10mm is the ultimate carbine but 10mm ammo is expensive for a fun plinking gun. I guess .40 S&W would be the most economical "bigger" caliber. But theoretically speaking, most PCCs are blowback and .45 ACP would be the lowest pressure round.

    My 9mm is an AR PCC. Id probably build another one if I wanna try another caliber. I havent seen much on 10mm blowback ARs and the one place I did, the guy was having a lot of problems. Many say 10mm is too much of a round for a blowback. So probably just looking at .40 or .45.

    Just wondering how these calibers group at distance and compare out of a carbine even though theyre just pistol calibers.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    I know CMMG Banshee has a 10mm variant that is delayed blowback.

    I'm no expert but I would imagine if it could handle hotter 10mm loads it would be the most effective of the options.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Any of these will be accurate with the right barrel (and trigger). I have 9mm and 45 PCCs and they are great even to 100 yds, but YMMV. Your grouping is less a function of caliber and more a function of el cheapo barrel.

    10mm is not "too much round for blowback" - 10mm pistols are in fact blowback, lol. I have several, they work fine. I think what people mean is that one has to tune the buffer weight and spring to match the load. Some 10mm can be hot (Buffalo Bore), some cold (Armscorp is loaded very light). Changing loads in 10mm can require changing springs, etc.
     

    asdaven

    Active Member
    Oct 30, 2013
    272
    Maryland
    Any of these will be accurate with the right barrel (and trigger). I have 9mm and 45 PCCs and they are great even to 100 yds, but YMMV. Your grouping is less a function of caliber and more a function of el cheapo barrel.

    10mm is not "too much round for blowback" - 10mm pistols are in fact blowback, lol. I have several, they work fine. I think what people mean is that one has to tune the buffer weight and spring to match the load. Some 10mm can be hot (Buffalo Bore), some cold (Armscorp is loaded very light). Changing loads in 10mm can require changing springs, etc.

    Usually pistols are locked breech (tilting barrel) and some sort of recoil operation unless they shoot lower powered ammo (.380, .32 ACP, etc). And yeah theres High Point Pistols with the massive heavy slides which are straight blowback. Dont know if they have a 10mm in their pistols. But usually pistols 9x19 and up have some sortve locked breech.

    A big advantage 9mm has is penetration through objects (although a negative in a self defense situation). Someone on Youtube was comparing .45 +P and 9mm +P out of a carbine and it gave the 9mm enough of a gain to penetrate body armor. Whereas, the .45+P was stopped. I thought most body armor defeated 9mm but apperently not.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,750
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Self-defense purposes aside, which caliber semi-auto PCC performs the best at punching paper and hitting targets at distance excluding magnum calibers? ... probably just looking at .40 or .45.

    Just wondering how these calibers group at distance and compare out of a carbine even though theyre just pistol calibers.

    I’d not hesitate to go .40 (aka 10mm “short” :lol2: )

    I have two PCC’s in 9mm (Colt AR-9 from back in the 80’s & and a Gen II SUB2000) and two in .40 (Rock River AR-40 and a second SUB2000, Gen 1)

    They are all accurate out to 75yds but, 50yds and in the 9mm AR way out performs the .40, accuracy-wise. Terminally; however; the “oomph award” very solidly goes to the .40

    Sad to say, I am least impressed with the Rock River: fully loaded 32-rd mags are all but impossible to actually seat and the sheer b.s. they put me (and then I found out others) through trying to obtain 25-rd mags (which I can’t help but suspect they introduced when complaints started coming in about the 32-rd mag mouths “bulging”) would make members of the MD Gen’l Assembly smile :mad54: Last but not least, I own over a dozen AR’s in different configurations and my Rock River is the only one that has ever had a sling swivel do this ...
     

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    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    I've got an AR9 pistol build that will shoot 3-4" groups off a rest at 100 yds with a Romeo5 red dot, firing 147 gr hand loads. It has a 5" barrel.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    A big advantage 9mm has is penetration through objects (although a negative in a self defense situation). Someone on Youtube was comparing .45 +P and 9mm +P out of a carbine and it gave the 9mm enough of a gain to penetrate body armor. Whereas, the .45+P was stopped. I thought most body armor defeated 9mm but apperently not.


    ok well, in your OP you said "punching paper and hitting targets at distance"



    9mm goes through paper same as any other caliber, lol.
     

    asdaven

    Active Member
    Oct 30, 2013
    272
    Maryland
    I’d not hesitate to go .40 (aka 10mm “short” :lol2: )

    I have two PCC’s in 9mm (Colt AR-9 from back in the 80’s & and a Gen II SUB2000) and two in .40 (Rock River AR-40 and a second SUB2000, Gen 1)

    They are all accurate out to 75yds but, 50yds and in the 9mm AR way out performs the .40, accuracy-wise. Terminally; however; the “oomph award” very solidly goes to the .40

    Sad to say, I am least impressed with the Rock River: fully loaded 32-rd mags are all but impossible to actually seat and the sheer b.s. they put me (and then I found out others) through trying to obtain 25-rd mags (which I can’t help but suspect they introduced when complaints started coming in about the 32-rd mag mouths “bulging”) would make members of the MD Gen’l Assembly smile :mad54: Last but not least, I own over a dozen AR’s in different configurations and my Rock River is the only one that has ever had a sling swivel do this ...

    Yupp true. Lot of considerations though. I enjoy the 9mm far better in a carbine than a pistol. In a pistol, I like .45 ACP better. For one, your probably going to shoot more rounds from a carbine than a pistol. 9mm ammo is much cheaper. Two, the 9mm probably gains the most in velocity from a longer barrel. 16" barrel might be slowing a .45 ACP down while at 16" 9mm is still accelerating some.

    Then with .40 S&W, you almost rather have 10mm. But 10mm is much more expensive and the cheapest 10mm factory ammo isnt loaded that hot anyhow from what I understand. .45 would be "more" different than a .40 when comparing with the 9mm I already have but again more expensive per round on the .45. .40 might gain more than the .45 in a longer barrel.

    Theres also .357 SiG but I imagine that ammo price is more than 10mm. Once you get into the 5.56 and 7.62x39 cost range, the PCC concept starts to loose some of its major merits. For this reason alone IMO, 9mm is hands down the best choice for at least someones first PCC.

    Mainly debating between building an AR in .40 S&W or one in .45 ACP. I feel the .45 ACP builds and parts are more plentiful but I maybe wrong. But then again ammo price of the .45 ACP.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    This is kinda like, "my Gramma can kick your Gramma's ass". It doesn't really matter what a PCC can do at 100 yds, really.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    This is kinda like, "my Gramma can kick your Gramma's ass". It doesn't really matter what a PCC can do at 100 yds, really.

    I have my 9mm for urban combat and hostage rescue applications when I’m sure the Tangos aren’t wearing body armor. It’s just how I operate.
     

    shadow116

    2nd Class Citizen
    Feb 28, 2008
    1,542
    Emmitsburg
    I have my 9mm for urban combat and hostage rescue applications when I’m sure the Tangos aren’t wearing body armor. It’s just how I operate.

    Yep. Tangos wearing body armor calls for a .338 Lapua. Well unless they have a second plate duct taped to their back.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    I came here to change my second post. I guess I'm too late. :o


    OP, sorry, but this sounds like a new spin on an age old argument. "Which round is better?"


    :)
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    This is kinda like, "my Gramma can kick your Gramma's ass". It doesn't really matter what a PCC can do at 100 yds, really.

    Proper tool for the job.

    Pistol for easy carry, close range.

    PCC, less convenient to carry, better practical accuracy, a bit more power, for close to across the yard ranges.

    5.56 carbine, similar to carry. Heavier with the same number of rounds, more power. Not as handy for very close, but reaches out to medium ranges with good hitting power

    7.62 rifle, heavier, heavier ammo, smaller mags, but reach out to fairly long range.

    When you REALLY need to reach out and touch someone, .338 Lapua or .50 BMG. :D

    And when you REALLY need to hit HARD, call in the Hogs and give the the BRRRRRTTT treatment. :lol2::lol2:
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    IMO PCCs offer control, capacity and portability when compared to pistols and rifles, an increase in power is not their purpose. IMO 9mm is ideal, although you get severely diminishing returns in velocity vs portability once your barrel extends beyond 7". Even at modest handgun velocities, 9mm is a capable out to 100 yards and beyond, but still easy to control and compact for fast/close shooting, even better with delayed or locking breech designs, more powerful rounds come at the expense of what makes a PCC great IMO, and still are inferior to rifle cal ARs. The only real exception can be hot 10mm, where it can come close to some rifle cal ballistics, but IMO it isn't as versatile as 300BO, gives up a LOT in blowback vs DI, and costs about the same.
     

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