I'd like some more info about this M1911 A1

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

I recently acquired this fine specimen. Serial number dates it to 1945, and I also got some ammo to go with it.

There are some things that google searching didn't readily reveal.

1) The grips appear to be non-standard. Are the grips from the same era, or are they a modification done later?

2) There seems to be a patina on the shiny metal parts. Looks great, not sure it that's original/intentional or just neglect.

3) I would assume a 1945 model is safe to shoot, (I know you can't be a gunsmith over the internet) but should it be safe enough for some range fun? Or even HD should the situation arise (over a gen 4 glock 9mm)?

4) It came with some mil-surp ammo, is that ammo safe or collectible only? Is modern ammo safe to shoot?
The ammo with an extra crimp ring came out if the pictured box. I have a few more rounds of the non-extra-crimped variety. It has RA 63 stamped around the primer.

5) What about the sight? (It has "micro" written on it) OEM? Aftermarket?

6) I didn't find any serial numbers on the slide, (checked behind the pin retaining plate) or on the barrel. I heard of "matching numbers" but mine has no number to match if that is the case. Is this normal?

7) Don't know when it was last maintained... I use MC#7 cleaner, and Miltec 1 lube on the glock... That ok for the 1911?

ken792 · Mar 28, 2018

The grips are not GI. I don't know what era they'd likely be.

The gun has been polished and blued.

I believe only Colt serialized slides under the firing pin stop. No idea if the slide is even GI, but the frame certainly isn't a Colt given the FJA stamp.

The sights are aftermarket target sights.

The ammo is probably collectible to someone, especially if it's a full box. The crimp groove around the case is to prevent bullet setback.

You can lube a 1911 with just about anything. I prefer bearing grease because it stays in place and doesn't run. One of my friends literally uses Crisco cooking oil in his 1911 (it has gummed up, but still works).

photoracer · Mar 28, 2018

its not a crimp, its called a cannelure. In reloading both the bullet and the case can have a cannelure. Its made up of little tiny finned surfaces that in the bullet allows a crimp to grab the bullet firmer. In a case it prevents the bullet from going farther into the case. You will often find them in cases that use heavy longer bullets so that the bullet doesn't get pushed down into the case from rough handling or from being jammed trying to feed into the chamber. Prevents having a huge pressure spike if the round is fired with the bullet pushed down farther into the case.
As for the gun, cleaning with that is fine. I would get new ammo and just keep that ammo as a memento. It might have old style corrosive primers as I can't tell. The pistol has target sights on it so unless they were added later it was probably not used in combat as those kind of sights were not used because they could snag on clothing. A target gun would likely have a lot more rounds thru it than a combat one also. I would not shoot it myself unless I had someone competent check the functioning of the action. Things like a worn sear could make it go full auto the first time you try to fire it.

iH8DemLibz · Mar 28, 2018

Someone tried to develop fake case hardening on the slide release lever.

They applied heat with a torch until those colors showed up. And the idiot very likely softened the steel too. Makes me wonder what else they added too much heat too. The safety looks very gray, mottled, and suspect.

Those are the first parts I'd replace.

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

Lots of great, but disappointing, information.

So based off of the serial number I am looking at a Remington Rand from 1945 SN is 2444xxx with an "NO" prefix.

In summary, is this a pile of pretty junk, or a pieced together "fun-toy"? Looks like at this point, there is no collectible value.

Squaregrouper · Mar 28, 2018

gslenk said:
Lots of great, but disappointing, information.

So based off of the serial number I am looking at a Remington Rand from 1945 SN is 2444xxx with an "NO" prefix.

In summary, is this a pile of pretty junk, or a pieced together "fun-toy"? Looks like at this point, there is no collectible value.

1911's are not my forte by any means. I will be quick to agree your pistol has almost zero collectability. As others stated, get it checked out by a gunsmith and shoot away.

photoracer · Mar 28, 2018

Based on data I looked over I suspect it is a late Remington Rand model from 1945. the marks are in the right places but there should be engraving on the slide. Its possible as a target gun that an aftermarket slide was installed, which might not have any marks on it. But it does look like the marks for a 1945 Remington Rand the more I look at the pictures of the frame. But I am not an expert in vintage 1911s, so take this for what its worth.

ohen cepel · Mar 28, 2018

It's a shooter that has been messed with a lot.

dist1646 · Mar 28, 2018

The grips look like Herret (sp?). Looks to me like someone did a lot of polishing to a GI frame so that they could blue it instead of leaving it parkerized. Can't tell from the pics whether the slide or barrel were GI, I suspect they may be replacements. Sights are definitely aftermarket. iH6DemLibz is correct with his post. Not collectable, just a shooter grade thanks to whoever modified it.

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

Frame is marked with "z" and "g" on the right side of the trigger guard, "7" on the left side. "P" next to the magazine release.

Barrel is marked "P" (left side) and "HS" (right).

Slide has a "P" on top by the rear sight, no other marks.

Any rough estimates as to what its going to cost me to have a gunsmith look at it to make sure its safe to shoot? Is it worthwhile to keep as a .45 shooter?

If I punch out the pins to look deeper into the parts, are they reusable when I reassemble the gun?

Any significance of the circular stamp/mark on the top area of the frame?

Jimbob2.0 · Mar 28, 2018

Like many 1911's its someones project. Though everything looks quality.

Its a nice shooter, plain and simple.

Someday I wonder if these 60 to 80s projects will become collectible in their won right.

Mightydog · Mar 28, 2018

gslenk said:
Frame is marked with "z" and "g" on the right side of the trigger guard, "7" on the left side. "P" next to the magazine release.

Barrel is marked "P" (left side) and "HS" (right).

Slide has a "P" on top by the rear sight, no other marks.

Any rough estimates as to what its going to cost me to have a gunsmith look at it to make sure its safe to shoot? Is it worthwhile to keep as a .45 shooter?

If I punch out the pins to look deeper into the parts, are they reusable when I reassemble the gun?

Any significance of the circular stamp/mark on the top area of the frame?

What’s the complete marking on this side of the frame? Looks like “UNITED.....”

iH8DemLibz · Mar 28, 2018

The grip safety and the main spring housing were fake case hardened too. Thereby softened. But it won't cause any problems.

I'm fairly certain the hammer has been heat softened too. Again, gray and mottled. Replace that part too.

Sorry for all the bad news. Bubba really went to work on her.

PS: The safety has definitely been heat softened. You can look at the backside of it and tell.

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

Mightydog said:
What’s the complete marking on this side of the frame? Looks like “UNITED.....”

The marking reads:
UNITED STATES PROPERTY M 1911 A1 U.S. ARMY

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
The grip safety and the main spring housing were fake case hardened too. Thereby softened. But it won't cause any problems.

I'm fairly certain the hammer has been heat softened too. Again, gray and mottled. Replace that part too.

Sorry for all the bad news. Bubba really went to work on her.

PS: The safety has definitely been heat softened. You can look at the backside of it and tell.

Everything shiny that is exposed outside has had the "treatment". It would look nice, but the grips are too busy for me. Still not a fan of form that diminishes function.

iH8DemLibz · Mar 28, 2018

Luckily the replacement parts won't cost you an arm and a leg.

And there are a few top shelf fellas on here that can get the old girl up and running again.

Best of luck with her.

PS: I can't imagine even Bubba giving the sear the "Treatment", but you should inspect it nonetheless.

gslenk · Mar 28, 2018

Does it matter what manufacturer for replacements? Springfield armory seems to be the most original looking.

I'm used to modifying Russian guns with "file to fit" tolerances...

iH8DemLibz · Mar 28, 2018

Springfield Armory makes a fine product. Do they sell individual parts?

Wilson Combat is good stuff too. You'll go blind looking at all of their 1911 goodies.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 28, 2018

Those are Herrett Double Diamond grips . For 20 or 25yrs they were THE grips for 1911s .

Those Micro sights are well regarded target sights . Not quite as popular as Bomar , but some people prefered the Micro on purpose .

I would speculate a previous owner did the work in the 1960- early '70s era . I would also check the fit of the various parts , as may well have recieved old school accurizing .

* To Me * , this is potentially a good example of a target gun from the era before there was an industry making drop in aftermarket parts, and custom/ target guns were made by individual gunsmiths .

Magnumite · Mar 29, 2018

The barrel is a High Standard about right for that era but not sure since I am not consulting a manual right now. Is there a 7 digit number stamped on the barrel hood/chamber, 770xxxx? A brass or welded bump on the left rear of the slide port to bear against the barrel hood extension? Grips originally Herrett’s as mentioned. A highly functional grip fills the hand right but appearance is a turnoff for some. A couple of slide stop scratches.

It would be nice to look inside the pistol and see what is going on. It seems the slide may have been squeezed before being sanded but not certain. A nice, interesting pistol. I was looking at similar type pistol earlier this week. A parts gun of consisting of cast off parts from military armory target guns but too bad. Wasn’t parts matched, couple bugs in it, had to pass for the price.

I'd like some more info about this M1911 A1

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Member

Attachments

Ultimate Member

Competition Shooter

When All Else Fails.

Member

Kragaphile

Competition Shooter

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Attachments

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

When All Else Fails.

Member

Member

When All Else Fails.

Member

When All Else Fails.

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics