TheGunnyRet
Ultimate Member
"Dick Beaters" interesting reference...
Position of finger on trigger
- Thread starter travistheone
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- Jul 29, 2014
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"Dick Beaters" interesting reference...
We used to callm' dick beaters, beaters, dick skinners, skinners.
travistheone
Usual Suspect
Good answers guys. Neat conversation. Interesting when conventional wisdom is defied.
In reference to his combat strength program- it is needlessly complicated. He has good info but there is a low signal to noise ratio. The quality is not equal to his firearms trainings.
In reference to his combat strength program- it is needlessly complicated. He has good info but there is a low signal to noise ratio. The quality is not equal to his firearms trainings.
I don't think it matters how much finger you put on the trigger as long as the trigger is being pressed rearward and not being pulled towards the palm.
molonlabe
Ultimate Member
This especially DA.
StickShaker
Active Member
Interesting that I am experiencing the opposite. I guess many different factors are involved and it boils down to the person pulling the trigger.
I've always just used the tip, and tend to shoot any handgun that is not a 1911 low, and often left. Today I tried putting more finger on the triggers (3 non1911 autos and 1 revolver), and it definitely fixed the left part...almost 100%.
I still shot low.
It seems like, despite my best concentration, my wrist turns down just as the trigger breaks.
I still shot low. It seems like, despite my best concentration, my wrist turns down just as the trigger breaks.
Anticipating the recoil..I've always just used the tip, and tend to shoot any handgun that is not a 1911 low, and often left. Today I tried putting more finger on the triggers (3 non1911 autos and 1 revolver), and it definitely fixed the left part...almost 100%.
Any trick to preventing it...other than just trying really hard not to do it (cause that ain't been working
)? I used to blame it on the curved, rotational trigger vs. the sliding 1911 type trigger, but I've gotten into guns with nicer triggers and been super focused on not letting my trigger finger influence the rest of my hand...although learning from this thread may indicate that I wasn't doing such a great job of that either
Ironically, the only other handgun I don't shoot too low probably has the most recoil of all, my .44mag. Maybe I still do it, but the bullet is still in the longer barrel long enough for it to be influenced by the recoil and cancel out my anticipation?
Bring a friend.. have them load random dummy round in a mag with live rounds..Any trick to preventing it...other than just trying really hard not to do it (cause that ain't been working
Ironically, the only other handgun I don't shoot too low probably has the most recoil of all, my .44mag. Maybe I still do it, but the bullet is still in the longer barrel long enough for it to be influenced by the recoil and cancel out my anticipation?
I've always just used the tip, and tend to shoot any handgun that is not a 1911 low, and often left. Today I tried putting more finger on the triggers (3 non1911 autos and 1 revolver), and it definitely fixed the left part...almost 100%.
Any trick to preventing it...other than just trying really hard not to do it (cause that ain't been working
Ironically, the only other handgun I don't shoot too low probably has the most recoil of all, my .44mag. Maybe I still do it, but the bullet is still in the longer barrel long enough for it to be influenced by the recoil and cancel out my anticipation?
I have found the exact same thing (including using more finger) ... now here is what I can not explain ... I also drop the front of the gun down ... on training guns that will have no recoil. Apparently I do it on cap guns and air guns as well.
After using the MantisX training set up (which when dryfring has no recoil) I am no longer convinced it is "anticipating recoil".
The only thing that has been suggested to me in the past was to practice with low recoiling handguns so I would learn not to anticipate.
I need to have another suggestion.
That only proves you are doing it. It doesn't help you NOT to do it.
Best way to find out.. video yourself (hands/gun). You prolly can see what you're doing.
Thanks for the feedback. I didn't mean to thread jack (well, maybe a little). I essentially did the unknown mag technique to myself today with a few rounds in the revolver and a spin of the cylinder. When the pressure is on like that, I usually perform. When it went "click," it was as though I was dry firing: perfect sight picture (at least to my standards and abilities) throughout, would have been an X 
When it went "Bang," I didn't think that I was startled. The shots were better, but not X's
Out of the Ruger American 9mm, Ruger Redhawk .45acp, Sig P227 .45acp, and S&W M&P Shield 9mm, I actually shot the Shield best. I think it is because it's trigger felt the most foreign to me. Even though I don't have much trigger time with any of these guns (first time on the Sig and Shield, third or so on the others), I kinda had a feel for when the trigger would break on the big ones. The little shield's trigger was lighter than I expected and didn't break where I felt like it "should." A couple of times it DID startle me when it went off, and one of those WAS an X
When it went "Bang," I didn't think that I was startled. The shots were better, but not X's Out of the Ruger American 9mm, Ruger Redhawk .45acp, Sig P227 .45acp, and S&W M&P Shield 9mm, I actually shot the Shield best. I think it is because it's trigger felt the most foreign to me. Even though I don't have much trigger time with any of these guns (first time on the Sig and Shield, third or so on the others), I kinda had a feel for when the trigger would break on the big ones. The little shield's trigger was lighter than I expected and didn't break where I felt like it "should." A couple of times it DID startle me when it went off, and one of those WAS an X
Thanks for the feedback. I didn't mean to thread jack (well, maybe a little). I essentially did the unknown mag technique to myself today with a few rounds in the revolver and a spin of the cylinder. When the pressure is on like that, I usually perform. When it went "click," it was as though I was dry firing: perfect sight picture (at least to my standards and abilities) throughout, would have been an X
Out of the Ruger American 9mm, Ruger Redhawk .45acp, Sig P227 .45acp, and S&W M&P Shield 9mm, I actually shot the Shield best. I think it is because it's trigger felt the most foreign to me. Even though I don't have much trigger time with any of these guns (first time on the Sig and Shield, third or so on the others), I kinda had a feel for when the trigger would break on the big ones. The little shield's trigger was lighter than I expected and didn't break where I felt like it "should." A couple of times it DID startle me when it went off, and one of those WAS an X
That's where the "let it surprise you" came from.. lol
Anticipating the shot has NOTHING to do with finger position or trigger press. It has everything to do with the mind making you push the pistol down to counter the recoil because you are (afraid//nervous, startled, not used to, etc...). Someone would have to press back and slide the finger down to "push" the barrel downward.
The problem is 2 things....
1. Simply not used to a pistol going bang.
or
2. Slow fire because you are thinking about it happening.
The correction to #1 is to simply shoot the pistol without worrying about perfect shot placement to condition yourself to get used to it. Much like not giving a crap when brass hits you in the head. That stuff is ancillary to the actual job at hand which is to concentrate on sight alignment. You worry about that stuff, then you are using less attention to alignment.
Shooting "with" recoil is essential. Make it part of your sight reset and it's not a problem. Shoot, muzzle flips up, reset sight picture as your grip and gravity brings the front sight down.
Correcting #2 is sort of related to #1 correction. Slow static fire demands you pay attention to EVERYTHING. I could almost guarantee when when shooting rapid fire (because you are thinking about taming the pistol from flipping up) or during shoot, move, shoot drills, no one anticipates a shot. Why? Because other stuff is going on and you don't think about it.
Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
Maybe not the most clear explanations, but definitely points to think about that WILL make a shooter a better shot.
The problem is 2 things....
1. Simply not used to a pistol going bang.
or
2. Slow fire because you are thinking about it happening.
The correction to #1 is to simply shoot the pistol without worrying about perfect shot placement to condition yourself to get used to it. Much like not giving a crap when brass hits you in the head. That stuff is ancillary to the actual job at hand which is to concentrate on sight alignment. You worry about that stuff, then you are using less attention to alignment.
Shooting "with" recoil is essential. Make it part of your sight reset and it's not a problem. Shoot, muzzle flips up, reset sight picture as your grip and gravity brings the front sight down.
Correcting #2 is sort of related to #1 correction. Slow static fire demands you pay attention to EVERYTHING. I could almost guarantee when when shooting rapid fire (because you are thinking about taming the pistol from flipping up) or during shoot, move, shoot drills, no one anticipates a shot. Why? Because other stuff is going on and you don't think about it.
Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
Maybe not the most clear explanations, but definitely points to think about that WILL make a shooter a better shot.
YES! This!!! (I thought at first) Although I guess I have to find out exactly what I'm doing in order to not do it. I am pretty certain it is my wrist letting the muzzle droop and not my whole arms dropping. Shooting from a rest under my hands was about as low as offhand. Putting the gun itself just in front of the trigger guard on the rest put me pretty much on target
Nope.. it's practice and learning..
Mental game sort of..
It is definitely mental. I don't flinch or anticipate on rifles (shooting a flintlock helps with that...it's like the unknown mag every single time).
It's true that I don't practice enough, no question.
but I definitely want to be sure I'm practicing correctly.I don't know if I have the ability to take good enough video to slow it down and really see what's happening, but it's definitely worth a try. I might have to break down and get some training...
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
I don't see a single .22 LR in that list. Get one.
travistheone
Usual Suspect
Another thing- are you talking about being inaccurate during slow fire or more rapid tempo drills?
I find that I can shoot 5 shot fast more accurately than slow. This has to do with the energy involved to hold the gun correctly. Don't overthink.
Get proper grip and sight picture- squeeze away.
I find that I can shoot 5 shot fast more accurately than slow. This has to do with the energy involved to hold the gun correctly. Don't overthink.
Get proper grip and sight picture- squeeze away.
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