Do you say something?

miles71 · Sep 4, 2016

Let's say:
You see someone doing what appears to be a training session of some sort at an outdoor range. The person who appears to be leading the session is not dressed in a way to identify them as an instructor but it's obvious they are leading the training.

You see some things that don't make sense and border on unsafe. Do you say something?

I am all for small classes and informal training from experienced individuals. But..........

TD

Minuteman · Sep 4, 2016

Terrible question.

Worse answer.... depends.

Minuteman · Sep 4, 2016

In all seriousness, I think if you saw something really unsafe, you have a duty to 'do something', if at all possible. Let's just hope that the thing you do makes the situation more safe and doesn't escalate anything.

If you really need a more specific answer, you'll have to provide a more specific example. Every situation is so unique, and one can never totally understand the environment unless they were there.

Having said that, some things are plain unsafe and often just a quiet, gentle nod to the instructor is usually enough for them to take notice and tighten up the groups shot group.

If you are talking about On-Target, I've noticed some 'instructors' training folks (years ago, because I almost never shoot there any more) and the environment seemed a little outside my comfort zone.

mopar92 · Sep 4, 2016

Anybody can call a ceasefire etc. If the actions are unsafe for any reason I would intervene and pull the "instructor" aside for a quick discussion. Or notify range staff to just keep an eye out.

miles71 · Sep 4, 2016

My post was intentionally vague, I don't want anyone to get in hot water but "outside my comfort zone" is a great way to describe it. I was not involved in the training and was observing from a far.

Like I said in my OP, bordering on unsafe but not there.......yet.

TD

Mr. Ed · Sep 4, 2016

If the danger appears imminent, I would intercede. It it's less urgent, I'd mention it to the RSO and let them handle it. Their range, their responsibility to maintain a safe environment.

rseymorejr · Sep 4, 2016

miles71 said:
My post was intentionally vague, I don't want anyone to get in hot water but "outside my comfort zone" is a great way to describe it. I was not involved in the training and was observing from a far.

Like I said in my OP, bordering on unsafe but not there.......yet.

TD

The problem with a situation like this is that "borderline unsafe" can become extremely unsafe in the blink of an eye. I think you owe it to yourself, and anyone else within range, to gently speak to the person who seems to be in charge as soon as you notice a problem.
Nip it in the bud.

clandestine · Sep 4, 2016

Some people have VERY different opinions of "unsafe". I follow the rules for the ranges I attend. If I have a lapse in judgment and get corrected for breaking a WRITTEN rule, then I oblige the person reminding me. If that person tries to correct me because the "feel" im breaking an unwritten rule, I will happily respond in a less then kind manner.

Some consider holster draws unsafe, some consider a slung rifle with a chambered round and the safety on unsafe. I dont.

FWIW, I dont identify myself as an instructor in any way when I teach. If people dont like that, oh well.

Rich1911 · Sep 4, 2016

miles71 said:
Let's say:
You see someone doing what appears to be a training session of some sort at an outdoor range. The person who appears to be leading the session is not dressed in a way to identify them as an instructor but it's obvious they are leading the training.

You see some things that don't make sense and border on unsafe. Do you say something?

I am all for small classes and informal training from experienced individuals. But..........

TD

Ok, what did you see and what is the range?

davsco · Sep 4, 2016

clandestine said:
some consider a slung rifle with a chambered round and the safety on unsafe. I dont.

that does seem to be at least potentially unsafe. unknowingly the safety is switched off and then the trigger snags on something... is this allowed or encouraged in any military and police activities/operations? definitely not allowed in any 2 & 3 gun competitions i have done.

welder516 · Sep 4, 2016

We all have a responsibility to say something , as someone has pointed out everyone at the range can call a ceasefire and only one can call it hot .

Fox123 · Sep 4, 2016

davsco said:
that does seem to be at least potentially unsafe. unknowingly the safety is switched off and then the trigger snags on something... is this allowed or encouraged in any military and police activities/operations? definitely not allowed in any 2 & 3 gun competitions i have done.

Difference between playing and working.

Unloaded is pretty useless.... But then again our targets shoot back. Not really a problem in 3 gun.

clandestine · Sep 4, 2016

davsco said:
that does seem to be at least potentially unsafe. unknowingly the safety is switched off and then the trigger snags on something... is this allowed or encouraged in any military and police activities/operations? definitely not allowed in any 2 & 3 gun competitions i have done.

If you feel its unsafe then dont do it. Its not unsafe, and yes people train this way.

j_h_smith · Sep 4, 2016

Where's the RSO? Talk to them and voice your concern. Don't go to the firing line until the situation is remedied or leave. I don't think it's up to one person to correct another. That's why they have as RSO.

Devonian · Sep 4, 2016

I was shooting at a range during a class held by an IP here and a bunch of his students were handling pistols off the line. They were practicing grips, playing show and tell with each other and muzzle sweeping everyone on the line. It really pissed me of so I said something to the management. Later while the range was still hot the instructor asked me to crawl out past the line and pick up an ammo box he had nocked off the position next to me. I just said no but I was totally shocked he would ask someone to do that.
I ended up pm'ing the instructor about how unsafe I thought his class was and I got a bs wishy washy response.

PapiBarcelona · Sep 4, 2016

Can't talk to Range Safety people if they don't exist. The private club I pay dues to has none.

Don't need one either. Less than a 1000 members with probably only a few a day that use the place.

outrider58 · Sep 5, 2016

clandestine said:
Some people have VERY different opinions of "unsafe". I follow the rules for the ranges I attend. If I have a lapse in judgment and get corrected for breaking a WRITTEN rule, then I oblige the person reminding me.

I'm of this thought. Know the rules of YOUR range and if you see one being broken, speak up. Until then, keep quiet and observe. :thumbsup:

Pinecone · Sep 5, 2016

PapiBarcelona said:
Can't talk to Range Safety people if they don't exist. The private club I pay dues to has none.

Don't need one either. Less than a 1000 members with probably only a few a day that use the place.

In this case, it is up to each member to be the RSO.

My club says to say something, but not escalate. Get the member number and report.

davsco · Sep 5, 2016

Fox123 said:
Difference between playing and working.

Unloaded is pretty useless.... But then again our targets shoot back. Not really a problem in 3 gun.

so is this (hot rifle, safety on, slung) SOP in military and police ops? just asking as i have experience in neither. i totally get the hot and holstered pistol thing but the rifle seems a little more prone to an AD moving around with triggerguard uncovered, though i do understand you don't want to be racking the bolt when being shot at.

Welder84 · Sep 5, 2016

Is the range public or private?

Do you say something?

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