A Real "Smart" Gun

fred333 · Nov 7, 2017

Have any of the optics makers developed an optic containing a [remaining] round-count heads-up display (HUD)?

It just occurred to me that with the recent proliferation of sidearm-mounted optics, we now have a "smart" way to remedy that age-old question: "How many shots do I have left?"

erwos · Nov 7, 2017

So, there's a few of technical problems to be solved to do what you're talking about:
1. How to count the rounds in the mag?
2. How to tell the optic that count?
3. How to display that count in the optic?

The first problem is tough on a rifle, but seemingly doable on a pistol - you'd have conductive points on the side of the magazine that are triggered by the follower, and some sort of circuitry to read those points to know how many rounds are left.

The second problem is easy on a rifle - in a pinch, you could hard-wire it. You can't do that easily on a pistol because the slide is moving. That probably means wireless technology, which increases energy use by both the pistol and optic. Maybe something like active RFID could do it? You also have the possibility of jamming, albeit I doubt that's such a big deal in this context. And, oh, yeah, you need an industry standard for this. Good luck with that.

The third issue is the hardest one to solve. To my knowledge, no reflex sights support a truly programmable display / reticle right now.

IMHO, you'd be better off simplifying this issue, and simply having a red/green/yellow indicator on the beavertail showing whether your mag is empty/full/partially-full. That is probably within the capabilities of current technology, and would not result in bulking up the pistol so terribly much.

-Z/28- · Nov 7, 2017

erwos said:
So, there's a few of technical problems to be solved to do what you're talking about:
1. How to count the rounds in the mag?
2. How to tell the optic that count?
3. How to display that count in the optic?

The first problem is tough on a rifle, but seemingly doable on a pistol - you'd have conductive points on the side of the magazine that are triggered by the follower, and some sort of circuitry to read those points to know how many rounds are left.

The second problem is easy on a rifle - in a pinch, you could hard-wire it. You can't do that easily on a pistol because the slide is moving. That probably means wireless technology, which increases energy use by both the pistol and optic. Maybe something like active RFID could do it? You also have the possibility of jamming, albeit I doubt that's such a big deal in this context. And, oh, yeah, you need an industry standard for this. Good luck with that.

The third issue is the hardest one to solve. To my knowledge, no reflex sights support a truly programmable display / reticle right now.

IMHO, you'd be better off simplifying this issue, and simply having a red/green/yellow indicator on the beavertail showing whether your mag is empty/full/partially-full. That is probably within the capabilities of current technology, and would not result in bulking up the pistol so terribly much.

Instead of having a physical count of the rounds, why not just have it so you set the optic for how many rounds are in a mag for that firearm, and then it can count recoil impulses with a shock sensor of some sort. You press a reset button when you reload and it counts down as you fire.

Melnic · Nov 7, 2017

there are already training aids (MaintisX) that has a built in accelerometer to measure recoil. It could couple sound with recoil for more reliability.
Resetting with a mag fill could be manual but a better way would be automatic somehow.

Visual indicator showing say last 3 rounds is a good idea. Most people can count to 3. well, most people on this forum that is.

What ever you do, it can't mess with the reliability of the firearm, shoving electronics into the working parts of a firearm I think is not such a good idea without extreme testing. Doing that is not likely to make the firearm more reliable and thus not good.

Edit: found this
http://ch00ftech.com/2011/11/15/the-bullet-counter/
https://adsinc.com/latest-round-counter-tech-secubit/

erwos · Nov 7, 2017

-Z/28- said:
Instead of having a physical count of the rounds, why not just have it so you set the optic for how many rounds are in a mag for that firearm, and then it can count recoil impulses with a shock sensor of some sort. You press a reset button when you reload and it counts down as you fire.

Two problems:
1. If you don't load your magazines to full capacity - user error, perhaps - you wouldn't have an accurate round count. Also wouldn't work if you had to use partially loaded mags late in the game - which is exactly the time when you want a round count that's physically accurate.
2. "Press a reset button while reloading" is flatly unacceptable for a combat firearm. One more thing that could go wrong.

outrider58 · Nov 7, 2017

erwos said:
Two problems:
1. If you don't load your magazines to full capacity - user error, perhaps - you wouldn't have an accurate round count. Also wouldn't work if you had to use partially loaded mags late in the game - which is exactly the time when you want a round count that's physically accurate.
2. "Press a reset button while reloading" is flatly unacceptable for a combat firearm. One more thing that could go wrong.

These are minor issues that can be over come in the software. Load your mags to full capacity. No reason not to. Set up-Mag capacity(30-40-100). It will automatically reset after the inumetated impulses. Include a reset button. Not perfect, but don't let perfect be the killer of good. Of course, you get in a gnarly running gunfight, you will be more than likely paying attention to more pressing matters.

fred333 · Nov 7, 2017

Unless I'm missing something, it'd seem relatively simple to install a thin, flat pressure-sensitive sensor along the side of a magazine that produces a voltage based on the location of pressure. When fully loaded, the voltage would be at one end of the scale, indicating a full complement of cartridges in the HUD. Then, as rounds leave the magazine, the voltage drops to produce a descending readout in the HUD.
Is it possible that, with all the electronic wizardry in play today, no one's done this yet?

scout6 · Nov 7, 2017

Reminds me of the rifles in Aliens, not optical, but counter on the side.

ADR · Nov 7, 2017

Unreliable, expensive, fragile, untrustworthy, and a waste of time.

Who's going to trust a round remaining counter on a rifle? Most likely the type of person who will never actually have to use one.

fred333 · Nov 7, 2017

ADR said:
Who's going to trust a round remaining counter on a rifle?

I reckon anyone who currently trusts a red dot. But I could be wrong.

KevinK · Nov 7, 2017

I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots, or only five ........

Alan3413 · Nov 7, 2017

A mag window works pretty well and doesn't need any batteries.

ADR · Nov 7, 2017

fred333 said:
I reckon anyone who currently trusts a red dot. But I could be wrong.

If you're running one without a BUIS or co-witnessed, you deserve what you get when/if one fails.

fred333 · Nov 7, 2017

Alan3413 said:
A mag window works pretty well and doesn't need any batteries.

Where's the window?

photoracer · Nov 7, 2017

This is like all those new automobile features coming out that are for "safety" when in reality they are just for the fact that drivers are actually getting worse at it. Same with shooting. If you can't count rounds, and admittedly many can't, maybe this is just not your hobby. On the other hand the gun-control nuts are actually helping people. Its easier to count 7-10 rounds than it is 17-30 rounds. :lol2:

And as for the electronic counter in the Colonial Marines M41A Pulse Rifle, when would a Marine actually look at the mag count?
Correct when the shooting stopped. Anything that takes your concentration off shooting the bad guys is done when they are all dead or not returning fire. Then is when you check and top off.

Alan3413 · Nov 7, 2017

fred333 said:
Where's the window?

Hmm.. was thinking more about an AR.

My Glock only has a laser, so a red dot counter won't do anything for me.

Having said that, should be straightforward to make a fairly reliable counter. A shot is a sharp back and forth of the slide. Reset is slide slamming forward.

AlBeight · Nov 7, 2017

My cell phone has a step counter to track how much I walk each day. This app replaced the little plastic POS one I bought for $10 that I used to tie to my shoestrings. This technology, though it baffles the heck outta me, seems like it already exists in a realtime application. Some enterprising folks could probably do this fairly easily.

Pinecone · Nov 12, 2017

Reset button could be the mag release.

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