If denied, then what?

Alan3413 · Apr 4, 2013

Good evening folks,

Put in the paperwork for a new handgun mid February. Still a ways to go and the wait is making me paranoid.

I have a perfectly clean record, without so much as a parking ticket in my name. Still I can't help with the "what ifs".

What if I'm denied? Is there any recourse should that happen? I paid in full for the gun. Will the dealer wait while I sort it out?

:banghead:

I'd *really really* hate to have to start all over again.

seawolf823 · Apr 4, 2013

Alan3413 said:
Good evening folks,

Put in the paperwork for a new handgun mid February. Still a ways to go and the wait is making me paranoid.

I have a perfectly clean record, without so much as a parking ticket in my name. Still I can't help with the "what ifs".

What if I'm denied? Is there any recourse should that happen? I paid in full for the gun. Will the dealer wait while I sort it out?

I'd *really really* hate to have to start all over again.

Its all in your head. Iwas feeling the same way til I got the call for 2 of mine in Feb. Now the wait starts again for my 3/22 :banghead:

lee2 · Apr 4, 2013

you will need a get out of jail free card.

gmhowell · Apr 4, 2013

Relax. Mid February? like 2/14? Relax.

MonkeyPunch · Apr 4, 2013

From my understanding (not a lawyer nor have I gone through this myself - just to give you something to research):

If you are disapproved, you will be told by your dealer that it was disapproved; they should provide you with some contact information of the MSP officer who made the determination. You are currently given (I don't know since the new BS law passed) 30 days to decide to appeal the decision by contacting the MSP. After calling the MSP, you will be given the option (or the opportunity) to petition the disapproval. Someone at the MSP (I forget who - the one in charge of the legal process) is required to then file a court date to hear your petition within 15 days. At that date, you will go in to court and present your reasons for why your disapproval should be vacated.

Supposedly, these court hearings are stacked against you - unless you can clearly show how this disapproval was in error, they will simply side with the MSP and affirm the disapproval. It is my understanding that this is a permanent disapproval of all future regulated purchases (though I am not positive). I do not believe you can appeal this determination. The only way I think they MAY allow an appeal is if the underlying law (like the one passed) is sufficiently unconstitutional to warrant consideration. Still, it is likely that this court hearing would only provide the "damages" needed to bring a separate suit to court.

The moment you have gotten your disapproval, you should try to contact the officer and determine why you were disapproved. Then contact a competent/well-versed lawyer to handle your case.

Considering the time of your application, you could consider calling the MSP to determine if there is a "hold" on your application - something as simple as the dealer messing up. Be courteous and ask if there is any information you could provide, and the MSP will likely get the information and send it through.

Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

rwbow1969 · Apr 4, 2013

My FFL is recieving 2/12 paperwork back.

MonkeyPunch · Apr 5, 2013

Relating to the question of the Dealer waiting on a Disapproval:

They will not wait on your disapproval, as it equates to tied up inventory; they will resell the gun to whomever wants to purchase it. You will be charged the restocking fee (10-20% of price, depends on store) and the rest will be refunded (cash for cash, credit for credit); they may allow you to keep 90-100% as store credit. Depending on the store and how sympathetic they are to you, they may allow you to put down 10-50% as a reservation fee for a period of time.

I do not know if you can "repurchase" the same gun, thus giving yourself time to deal with an appeal. My guess is that you cannot - if you "repurchase" the gun and submit another purchase application, it may be seen as an illegal purchase attempt.

Again, I'm not 100% on this information, so please look into it yourself.

fabsroman · Apr 5, 2013

They are just getting to mid February regulated firearm applications. Don't run out there and retain an attorney just yet. Breath, relax, don't do it. lol

Yeah, SB281 has most of us in panic mode. Even my wife, because she is worried about what I am going to spend. lol I already got the green light for $3k, but discussed with her that my last handgun might be an upgrade to what I had already been thinking about.

Pinecone · Apr 5, 2013

MonkeyPunch said:
Relating to the question of the Dealer waiting on a Disapproval:

They will not wait on your disapproval, as it equates to tied up inventory; they will resell the gun to whomever wants to purchase it. You will be charged the restocking fee (10-20% of price, depends on store) and the rest will be refunded (cash for cash, credit for credit); they may allow you to keep 90-100% as store credit. Depending on the store and how sympathetic they are to you, they may allow you to put down 10-50% as a reservation fee for a period of time.

I do not know if you can "repurchase" the same gun, thus giving yourself time to deal with an appeal. My guess is that you cannot - if you "repurchase" the gun and submit another purchase application, it may be seen as an illegal purchase attempt.

Again, I'm not 100% on this information, so please look into it yourself.

The gun is sold to YOU. YOU paid for it, they collected the money.

If they resell it without your permission, I would have serious heartburn over that.

Now, if they took a deposit only and held the gun for the paperwork, then collected the rest upon pickup, then I might see them reselling.

MonkeyPunch · Apr 5, 2013

Pinecone said:
The gun is sold to YOU. YOU paid for it, they collected the money.

If they resell it without your permission, I would have serious heartburn over that.

Now, if they took a deposit only and held the gun for the paperwork, then collected the rest upon pickup, then I might see them reselling.

From my understanding, when you are disapproved, the MSP has denied your right to purchase the firearm. This constitutes severing of the contractual relationship (money for gun) between you and the dealer. At this point in time, they must refund you the money you have paid, minus a restocking fee (if the dealer has one).

At this point in time, you have [most of] your money, and they have a gun they can legally sell.

If the dealer allows reservations for x amount of time, you may be able to reserve that gun until your disapproval is corrected; you will be able to then re-purchase the gun for the full asking price (you lost your restocking fee and MSP app fee).

Again, this is my understanding of the current law (non-SB281) and talking with one of my local dealers. This may not be correct, and if someone who is more versed in the law can clarify, I'd appreciate it.

Alan3413 · Apr 5, 2013

Folks,

Thanks for the guidance. I rechecked my receipt and it was actually 2/27, not mid Feb :facepalm:

. At this point, I can only hope things go as planned.

StanW · Apr 5, 2013

Being a first time buyer I'm also a little paranoid. I had a minor incident as a minor (theft) and was arrested, it never went to court. Then there was a failure to where orange when hunting rabbit at a friends farm. Then a couple of speeding tickets. So, I don't believe that should be get me disapproved but I could see O'Malley whispering in their ears to "find something"...

MonkeyPunch · Apr 5, 2013

Alan3413 said:
Folks,

Thanks for the guidance. I rechecked my receipt and it was actually 2/27, not mid Feb . At this point, I can only hope things go as planned.

I'm set for 2/26 - so if I get disapproved, I'll let you know what to do. :thumbsup:

MonkeyPunch · Apr 5, 2013

StanW said:
Being a first time buyer I'm also a little paranoid. I had a minor incident as a minor (theft) and was arrested, it never went to court. Then there was a failure to where orange when hunting rabbit at a friends farm. Then a couple of speeding tickets. So, I don't believe that should be get me disapproved but I could see O'Malley whispering in their ears to "find something"...

As far as I know, provided the offense could not result in 2+ years incarceration, then it does not disqualify one for purchase. I do not know if being arrested or being sentenced is the requirement for precluding ownership - best to check the rest of mdshooters for those more knowledgeable about it than I.

mward · Apr 5, 2013

If you have a clean record, and know for sure you haven't done anything along the lines of things that reject you, you will be fine.

fabsroman · Apr 5, 2013

Alright, just spoke to somebody at MSP and they are working on February 15th right now. So, relax a little.

Also, you have to be convicted of a felony of any length of sentence or a misdemeanor that carries 2 years or more of a sentence, even if you receive less than the 2 years, for you to be disapproved. There are other things too that can result in you being disapproved and they are:

The Secretary shall disapprove a firearm application if:

(1) the Secretary determines that the firearm applicant supplied false information or made a false statement;

(2) the Secretary determines that the firearm application is not properly completed; or

(3) the Secretary receives written notification from the firearm applicant's licensed attending physician that the firearm applicant suffers from a mental disorder and is a danger to the firearm applicant or to another.

Of course, all the questions you answered on Form 77R are the reasons for being disapproved. The MSP will investigate your record and determine if you incorrectly answered any question. So, at the end of the day, you really should have a good handle on whether you will be disapproved or not.

Second Amendment · Apr 5, 2013

Are people having to wait for non-regulated purchases? I was thinking of picking up a shotgun.

MonkeyPunch · Apr 5, 2013

Second Amendment said:
Are people having to wait for non-regulated purchases? I was thinking of picking up a shotgun.

I do not believe that there is a wait period (beyond the 15 minutes it takes to call in a background check) for a non-regulated Shotgun. I would check the shotgun sub-forum though to be sure.

Pinecone · Apr 5, 2013

MonkeyPunch said:
From my understanding, when you are disapproved, the MSP has denied your right to purchase the firearm. This constitutes severing of the contractual relationship (money for gun) between you and the dealer. At this point in time, they must refund you the money you have paid, minus a restocking fee (if the dealer has one).

At this point in time, you have [most of] your money, and they have a gun they can legally sell.

If the dealer allows reservations for x amount of time, you may be able to reserve that gun until your disapproval is corrected; you will be able to then re-purchase the gun for the full asking price (you lost your restocking fee and MSP app fee).

Again, this is my understanding of the current law (non-SB281) and talking with one of my local dealers. This may not be correct, and if someone who is more versed in the law can clarify, I'd appreciate it.

The gun laws do not supercede contract law.

Since they require payment in full, I would suspect they need to contact you to determine what to do with the gun.

It isn't theirs, they sold it to you.

Of course, since you can't have it, you are motivated to sell it back to them.

All this, unless they specify other terms upon purchase.

StanW · Apr 5, 2013

Second Amendment said:
Are people having to wait for non-regulated purchases? I was thinking of picking up a shotgun.

Nope, I've bought a Mossberg 500 Persuader and and a Marlin 22. The Mossberg came from WV, the Marlin 22 from PA. Both BG checks took nearly an hour, evidently they call a different number when your out of state....

If denied, then what?

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