Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Rifles
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 20th, 2020, 05:33 PM #1
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
PCC Ballistics

Self-defense purposes aside, which caliber semi-auto PCC performs the best at punching paper and hitting targets at distance excluding magnum calibers? Mainly comparing the 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, and 10mm. I have a 9mm so far. Debating getting another caliber PCC. The 9mm does pretty well out of a 16" barrel especially with +P loads. Just curious how the other calibers stack up as far as accuracy.

The .45 ACP would be the next obvious choice but the .45 drops quite a bit and I dont know if it gains anything from a 16" barrel like the 9mm does. I can tell with mine the rounds shot from the carbine have quite a bit more power. Everybody says 10mm is the ultimate carbine but 10mm ammo is expensive for a fun plinking gun. I guess .40 S&W would be the most economical "bigger" caliber. But theoretically speaking, most PCCs are blowback and .45 ACP would be the lowest pressure round.

My 9mm is an AR PCC. Id probably build another one if I wanna try another caliber. I havent seen much on 10mm blowback ARs and the one place I did, the guy was having a lot of problems. Many say 10mm is too much of a round for a blowback. So probably just looking at .40 or .45.

Just wondering how these calibers group at distance and compare out of a carbine even though theyre just pistol calibers.
asdaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 05:50 PM #2
OLM-Medic's Avatar
OLM-Medic OLM-Medic is offline
Not Banned Yet
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,000
OLM-Medic OLM-Medic is offline
Not Banned Yet
OLM-Medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,000
I know CMMG Banshee has a 10mm variant that is delayed blowback.

I'm no expert but I would imagine if it could handle hotter 10mm loads it would be the most effective of the options.
__________________
Registered Murse
OLM-Medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 05:56 PM #3
danb's Avatar
danb danb is offline
3 5 7
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: pre-banned
Posts: 21,823
danb danb is offline
3 5 7
danb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: pre-banned
Posts: 21,823
Any of these will be accurate with the right barrel (and trigger). I have 9mm and 45 PCCs and they are great even to 100 yds, but YMMV. Your grouping is less a function of caliber and more a function of el cheapo barrel.

10mm is not "too much round for blowback" - 10mm pistols are in fact blowback, lol. I have several, they work fine. I think what people mean is that one has to tune the buffer weight and spring to match the load. Some 10mm can be hot (Buffalo Bore), some cold (Armscorp is loaded very light). Changing loads in 10mm can require changing springs, etc.
danb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 06:42 PM #4
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Any of these will be accurate with the right barrel (and trigger). I have 9mm and 45 PCCs and they are great even to 100 yds, but YMMV. Your grouping is less a function of caliber and more a function of el cheapo barrel.

10mm is not "too much round for blowback" - 10mm pistols are in fact blowback, lol. I have several, they work fine. I think what people mean is that one has to tune the buffer weight and spring to match the load. Some 10mm can be hot (Buffalo Bore), some cold (Armscorp is loaded very light). Changing loads in 10mm can require changing springs, etc.
Usually pistols are locked breech (tilting barrel) and some sort of recoil operation unless they shoot lower powered ammo (.380, .32 ACP, etc). And yeah theres High Point Pistols with the massive heavy slides which are straight blowback. Dont know if they have a 10mm in their pistols. But usually pistols 9x19 and up have some sortve locked breech.

A big advantage 9mm has is penetration through objects (although a negative in a self defense situation). Someone on Youtube was comparing .45 +P and 9mm +P out of a carbine and it gave the 9mm enough of a gain to penetrate body armor. Whereas, the .45+P was stopped. I thought most body armor defeated 9mm but apperently not.
asdaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 06:54 PM #5
slsc98's Avatar
slsc98 slsc98 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
Posts: 1,860
slsc98 slsc98 is offline
Senior Member
slsc98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdaven View Post
Self-defense purposes aside, which caliber semi-auto PCC performs the best at punching paper and hitting targets at distance excluding magnum calibers? ... probably just looking at .40 or .45.

Just wondering how these calibers group at distance and compare out of a carbine even though theyre just pistol calibers.
I’d not hesitate to go .40 (aka 10mm “short” )

I have two PCC’s in 9mm (Colt AR-9 from back in the 80’s & and a Gen II SUB2000) and two in .40 (Rock River AR-40 and a second SUB2000, Gen 1)

They are all accurate out to 75yds but, 50yds and in the 9mm AR way out performs the .40, accuracy-wise. Terminally; however; the “oomph award” very solidly goes to the .40

Sad to say, I am least impressed with the Rock River: fully loaded 32-rd mags are all but impossible to actually seat and the sheer b.s. they put me (and then I found out others) through trying to obtain 25-rd mags (which I can’t help but suspect they introduced when complaints started coming in about the 32-rd mag mouths “bulging”) would make members of the MD Gen’l Assembly smile Last but not least, I own over a dozen AR’s in different configurations and my Rock River is the only one that has ever had a sling swivel do this ...
Attached Images
 
__________________
Here’s something I can say with 100% certainty — every bear market in the history of U.S. stocks has led to new all-time highs at some point in the future” - Ben Carlson, 3/13/2020

hey, Hey, HEY! You heard it here first: IVANKA for POTUS, 2024!!!!!!!
slsc98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 07:18 PM #6
outrider58's Avatar
outrider58 outrider58 is online now
Goggle it Einstein
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26,932
outrider58 outrider58 is online now
Goggle it Einstein
outrider58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26,932
I've got an AR9 pistol build that will shoot 3-4" groups off a rest at 100 yds with a Romeo5 red dot, firing 147 gr hand loads. It has a 5" barrel.
__________________
Any comments made by me are made with the intent to spur discussion only.
Proceed on your own accord...
outrider58 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 07:37 PM #7
danb's Avatar
danb danb is offline
3 5 7
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: pre-banned
Posts: 21,823
danb danb is offline
3 5 7
danb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: pre-banned
Posts: 21,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdaven View Post
A big advantage 9mm has is penetration through objects (although a negative in a self defense situation). Someone on Youtube was comparing .45 +P and 9mm +P out of a carbine and it gave the 9mm enough of a gain to penetrate body armor. Whereas, the .45+P was stopped. I thought most body armor defeated 9mm but apperently not.

ok well, in your OP you said "punching paper and hitting targets at distance"



9mm goes through paper same as any other caliber, lol.
danb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 07:38 PM #8
DutchV DutchV is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,339
DutchV DutchV is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,339
Here's a whole bunch of data about mostly pistol calibers and how they behave in barrel lengths between 18" down to 2".

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
__________________
Making the bad man go away since 1982.
SOTAR Alumni
DutchV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 07:39 PM #9
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
asdaven asdaven is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by slsc98 View Post
I’d not hesitate to go .40 (aka 10mm “short” )

I have two PCC’s in 9mm (Colt AR-9 from back in the 80’s & and a Gen II SUB2000) and two in .40 (Rock River AR-40 and a second SUB2000, Gen 1)

They are all accurate out to 75yds but, 50yds and in the 9mm AR way out performs the .40, accuracy-wise. Terminally; however; the “oomph award” very solidly goes to the .40

Sad to say, I am least impressed with the Rock River: fully loaded 32-rd mags are all but impossible to actually seat and the sheer b.s. they put me (and then I found out others) through trying to obtain 25-rd mags (which I can’t help but suspect they introduced when complaints started coming in about the 32-rd mag mouths “bulging”) would make members of the MD Gen’l Assembly smile Last but not least, I own over a dozen AR’s in different configurations and my Rock River is the only one that has ever had a sling swivel do this ...
Yupp true. Lot of considerations though. I enjoy the 9mm far better in a carbine than a pistol. In a pistol, I like .45 ACP better. For one, your probably going to shoot more rounds from a carbine than a pistol. 9mm ammo is much cheaper. Two, the 9mm probably gains the most in velocity from a longer barrel. 16" barrel might be slowing a .45 ACP down while at 16" 9mm is still accelerating some.

Then with .40 S&W, you almost rather have 10mm. But 10mm is much more expensive and the cheapest 10mm factory ammo isnt loaded that hot anyhow from what I understand. .45 would be "more" different than a .40 when comparing with the 9mm I already have but again more expensive per round on the .45. .40 might gain more than the .45 in a longer barrel.

Theres also .357 SiG but I imagine that ammo price is more than 10mm. Once you get into the 5.56 and 7.62x39 cost range, the PCC concept starts to loose some of its major merits. For this reason alone IMO, 9mm is hands down the best choice for at least someones first PCC.

Mainly debating between building an AR in .40 S&W or one in .45 ACP. I feel the .45 ACP builds and parts are more plentiful but I maybe wrong. But then again ammo price of the .45 ACP.
asdaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2020, 07:41 PM #10
outrider58's Avatar
outrider58 outrider58 is online now
Goggle it Einstein
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26,932
outrider58 outrider58 is online now
Goggle it Einstein
outrider58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26,932
This is kinda like, "my Gramma can kick your Gramma's ass". It doesn't really matter what a PCC can do at 100 yds, really.
__________________
Any comments made by me are made with the intent to spur discussion only.
Proceed on your own accord...
outrider58 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Rifles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2019, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service