This happened today, 03/27/2014....CONFISCATION

PJDiesel · Mar 28, 2014

fabsroman said:
He could hunt with a bow. The entire PBJ thing making a person prohibited really bugs the heck out of me. Then again, there are a lot of crimes that make a person prohibited that bug the heck out of me too.

That's what he is being told. Sad situation, LIFELONG hunter and trapper. He just dropped off a lower and a handgun today. :tdown:

fabsroman · Mar 28, 2014

Name Taken said:
So because they do not take their charge seriously and either A) Do their own research B) Consult with their attorney C) Think...maybe I'm in NOT GUILTY I shouldn't settle for something else that's not their own problem?

No difference then people who know they have a court case for 6 months and do nothing to obtain a lawyer....sorry you didn't take court seriously but now it's time to put your big boy pants on and man up.

The case or report is READ and heard by the judge..it's not like the judge looks at the person, see's the charges listed, and makes a decision. If they were NOT GUILTY or if doubt could be raised why wouldn't they attempt. The reality is the vast majority (pick a percentage over 75%) are guilty and are willing to take a PBJ to stay out of jail.

I tell this to clients all the time, "It does not matter whether you are innocent or guilty, all that matters is what the State can prove and what the evidence shows." Plus, by going the PBJ route a lot less evidence gets put in front of the Judge. The system sucks, but it is a lot better than a lot of other places. Could use some improvement though.

redeemed.man · Mar 28, 2014

Name Taken said:
So because they do not take their charge seriously and either A) Do their own research B) Consult with their attorney C) Think...maybe I'm in NOT GUILTY I shouldn't settle for something else that's not their own problem?

No difference then people who know they have a court case for 6 months and do nothing to obtain a lawyer....sorry you didn't take court seriously but now it's time to put your big boy pants on and man up.

The case or report is READ and heard by the judge..it's not like the judge looks at the person, see's the charges listed, and makes a decision. If they were NOT GUILTY or if doubt could be raised why wouldn't they attempt. The reality is the vast majority (pick a percentage over 75%) are guilty and are willing to take a PBJ to stay out of jail.

You are preaching to the choir. I am a crime and punishment guy. The OP said the kid was 17 and with this common core type BS they are teaching these days I doubt this kid had any idea what his rights were. Deer in the headlights is what I would imagine. Yes most are guilty that accept a PBJ but there is a big difference between over 75% guilty and your earlier post of 99% guilty. It is easy to say the kid should put his big boy pants on but we have no idea what the specifics of the situation are in this instance. Some innocent folks do take PBJ's for whatever reason often at the advice of a weak attorney or Public Defender. Not everyone is cut from the same intellectual cloth.

Name Taken · Mar 28, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
You are preaching to the choir. I am a crime and punishment guy. The OP said the kid was 17 and with this common core type BS they are teaching these days I doubt this kid had any idea what his rights were. Deer in the headlights is what I would imagine. Yes most are guilty that accept a PBJ but there is a big difference between over 75% guilty and your earlier post of 99% guilty. It is easy to say the kid should put his big boy pants on but we have no idea what the specifics of the situation are in this instance. Some innocent folks do take PBJ's for whatever reason often at the advice of a weak attorney or Public Defender. Not everyone is cut from the same intellectual cloth.

I'll hold on to my 99% because I've never seen a case get read off or that went to a judge trial where the person wasn't guilty.

I'm sure things happen and there's been a few "innocent" folks who took a PBJ but from all that I've seen they a guilty and would be found guilty by any competent judge or jury.

Futhermore lets keep in MIND that not ALL PBJ's are going to prohibit firearm ownership. It's a handful of MISD. Charges that would even exclude someone PBJ or NOT.

Just like there are no guilty people in prison....

Jasonshooter · Mar 28, 2014

Now if one had a non -violent crime that was expunged over ten years ago , and purchased firearms since , any idea if he would be on this list to loose his right to own regulated firearms ?

Ab_Normal · Mar 28, 2014

fabsroman said:
I tell this to clients all the time, "It does not matter whether you are innocent or guilty, all that matters is what the State can prove and what the evidence shows." Plus, by going the PBJ route a lot less evidence gets put in front of the Judge. The system sucks, but it is a lot better than a lot of other places. Could use some improvement though.

So probation before judgement is essentially guilty until you 'prove' you are innocent by staying out of trouble for a certain length of time? Nice. :sad20:

teratos · Mar 28, 2014

Ab_Normal said:
So probation before judgement is essentially guilty until you 'prove' you are innocent by staying out of trouble for a certain length of time? Nice.

IIRC, you need to get it expunged to be able to have regulated firearms again.

Name Taken · Mar 28, 2014

Jasonshooter said:
Now if one had a non -violent crime that was expunged over ten years ago , and purchased firearms since , any idea if he would be on this list to loose his right to own regulated firearms ?

It's not a matter of it being not violent. It depends on what the Max. sentence for the offense is. I believe if it's punishable by more then 2 years it a problem...do not quote me on the 2 years bit.

Ab_Normal · Mar 28, 2014

teratos said:
IIRC, you need to get it expunged to be able to have regulated firearms again.

How everybody is describing the process it is guilty until proven innocent.

teratos · Mar 28, 2014

Ab_Normal said:
How everybody is describing the process it is guilty until proven innocent.

Yes it is. I can't imagine this will hold up in court. All we need is a plaintiff and someone to fund it. It sure doesn't sound like a plaintiff is going to be hard to find.....

2SAM22 · Mar 28, 2014

Name Taken said:
I'll hold on to my 99% because I've never seen a case get read off or that went to a judge trial where the person wasn't guilty.

I'm sure things happen and there's been a few "innocent" folks who took a PBJ but from all that I've seen they a guilty and would be found guilty by any competent judge or jury.

Futhermore lets keep in MIND that not ALL PBJ's are going to prohibit firearm ownership. It's a handful of MISD. Charges that would even exclude someone PBJ or NOT.

Just like there are no guilty people in prison....

You missed my followup post to that one.

RoadDawg · Mar 28, 2014

Name Taken said:
So because they do not take their charge seriously and either A) Do their own research B) Consult with their attorney C) Think...maybe I'm in NOT GUILTY I shouldn't settle for something else that's not their own problem?

No difference then people who know they have a court case for 6 months and do nothing to obtain a lawyer....sorry you didn't take court seriously but now it's time to put your big boy pants on and man up.

The case or report is READ and heard by the judge..it's not like the judge looks at the person, see's the charges listed, and makes a decision. If they were NOT GUILTY or if doubt could be raised why wouldn't they attempt. The reality is the vast majority (pick a percentage over 75%) are guilty and are willing to take a PBJ to stay out of jail.

And the other 25% are not astute enough or have not had PBJ properly explained to them. They take the quickest and easiest way out if the court room. Not realizing the gravity of what they just agreed to.

NEVER accept a PBJ if you did not do the crime you are charged with. Accepting probation is accepting guilt.

RoadDawg · Mar 28, 2014

Name Taken said:
It's not a matter of it being not violent. It depends on what the Max. sentence for the offense is. I believe if it's punishable by more then 2 years it a problem...do not quote me on the 2 years bit.

The new 4473 says ONE year.

RoadDawg · Mar 28, 2014

Ab_Normal said:
How everybody is describing the process it is guilty until proven innocent.

Yes... But the Defendant MUST accept that condition as part of the PBJ. The problem arises when the Defendant does not know what they are accepting and makes a foolish decision as a means of avoiding trial.

Ab_Normal · Mar 28, 2014

RoadDawg said:
Yes... But the Defendant MUST accept that condition as part of the PBJ. The problem arises when the Defendant does not know what they are accepting and makes a foolish decision as a means of avoiding trial.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go with a jury trial. :party29:

Name Taken · Mar 28, 2014

Ab_Normal said:
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go with a jury trial.

Not really.

Depending on the Judge, location, crime, and how the report is wrote you often times are MUCH better off going in front of a judge.

I could name a few judges that are not going to give anyone jail time at the District Court level...I use "anyone" with a bit of jest but she is well known as a very liberal judge.

Also for instance in Domestic Abuse cases. Judges and the such are a bit more "numb" to photos of physical injuries. Show 12 folks from Carroll County or the such a photo of a beat up wife and you are much more likely to get jail time IMHO.

Same could be said to DUI's as well as thefts where a business is the owner. Judges are human and after hearing the same old cases over time do get a bit complacent. 12 folks from "normal" life aren't going to be so kind.

Now if it's a Baltimore City or PG County Jury....who knows.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS Get a good attorney that know the area judges.

Alutacon · Mar 28, 2014

august1410 said:
This is a genuinely honest question. I've been trying to follow all of the MD law, but it's hard to follow...especially since I live in NC now and the rigamarole does not apply to me.

Can the State of MD confiscate something that was legally purchased after they discover the owner is no longer eligible to own it due to NEWLY ESTABLISHED criteria? Are they going through every single record just to find a reason to confiscate?

I know it sounds like a goofy question, but I simply do not understand anything when it comes to guns and the state of Maryland anymore.

It doesn't sound like Jr. ever legally possessed either firearm. One was picked up in December, after the law took effect on 10/1, and the other was picked up a few days ago. He was never legally allowed to take possession of either firearm.

Alutacon · Mar 28, 2014

Engine4 said:
Did they have a warrant, or do they not need one in this circumstance?

A warrant would be required for them to enter your home and take the weapons. My guess is they are betting you would rather voluntarily hand them over rather than make them come back with a warrant which allows them to stomp around your house rummaging through your shit.

yournamehere · Mar 28, 2014

RoadDawg said:
NEVER accept a PBJ if you did not do the crime you are charged with. Accepting probation is accepting guilt.

So, your 22 years old and charged with a crime you did not commit. You scrape together $6,000 for the best attorney you can afford. Go to trial and get railroaded. The state does not have any real proof of you committing the crime but the judge feels someone must pay and you were the best choice. The judge commends you for maintaining your innocence and fighting the good fight, but someone still has to pay. He offers you PBJ . Your initial thought is " I'm innocent" and I'm still going to fight this. Your lawyer advises you that an appeal is going to cost you another $15,000. You have no means to pay the attorney for the appeal and the judge is waiting for an answer. What would you do?

protegeV · Mar 28, 2014

yournamehere said:
So, your 22 years old and charged with a crime you did not commit. You scrape together $6,000 for the best attorney you can afford. Go to trial and get railroaded. The state does not have any real proof of you committing the crime but the judge feels someone must pay and you were the best choice. The judge commends you for maintaining your innocence and fighting the good fight, but someone still has to pay. He offers you PBJ . Your initial thought is " I'm innocent" and I'm still going to fight this. Your lawyer advises you that an appeal is going to cost you another $15,000. You have no means to pay the attorney for the appeal and the judge is waiting for an answer. What would you do?

Maybe I'm being naive, but if you did absolutely nothing wrong and there's no clandestine conspiracy against you then shouldn't even a public defender be able to prove your innocence?

I figure the high price lawyers are the ones you need when you did somethibg wrong and you need the charges mitigated :shrug:

This happened today, 03/27/2014....CONFISCATION

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