damn, 223 case prep SUCKS

alucard0822 · Feb 20, 2021

I sort and tumble clean brass after I collect enough from the range.

Put a few handfuls of brass in a cardboard box, spray some lube, shake it, dump in my case feeder.

Run through progressive to decap, size, at least 1K rounds an hour.

Use the Frankfort case prep center to trim, chamfer, deburr, and flip to ream crimped primer pockets, toss in the tumbler to final clean and get lube off. Probably 500 cases an hour.

Run through the press, decap in position 1 cleans media out of the primer hole/pocket. Then prime, charge, place a bullet, seat, crimp, and it's done. 500 rounds an hour.

Start to finish I can do a thousand rounds from my bin of clean brass to completed ammo in about 5 hours of work, usually split it up by operation over a few nights. Trimming sucks worst, manual trimmers are torture, using a case holder in a drill is a little faster; but the Frankford prep center or possum hollow goes well enough. Would like a press mounted trimmer to get that done after sizing, and basically save an hour or more per K, but really only comes in handy with large runs, and I can live with what I got for only a few thousand a year.

Mike3888 · Feb 20, 2021

Muleskinner said:
I deprime/size first then dry tumble then trim and swage primer pockets. But.. i chuck my little crow trimmer in my drill press to trimm.. about 1 second to trim then when that all done I take the trimmer out and replace it with the swage tool into the drill press. To do primer pockets. I do 1000 at a time and yes, it takes some time

Same here. Dedicated drill with zip tie on trigger then clamped.

madmantrapper · Feb 20, 2021

I don't think I saw annealing mentioned.

Bikebreath · Feb 20, 2021

davsco said:
holy cow.

tumble/clean it
tap out cleaning media
lube it
size it, deprime
tumble/clean it to remove lube, tap out cleaning media (or wipe off lube case by case)
trim it
chamfer inside and outside of mouth
swage primer pockets
primer pocket uniformer (not sure if i need to do this if swaging? have the swager on order).

am i doing anything dumb or duplicative?

Yeah, I didn't have the patience for it. I only do 9mm and 45acp.

Pinecone · Feb 20, 2021

Media sifter and finer grain media eliminate the tapping the media out.

I tumble to get dirt off. 15 minutes is fine. I have also washed cases for this step.

Lube (Dillon spray), then run through the 650 with a Lee Universal decapper in Station 1 and a sizer in State 2.

Tumble. Swage.

Load. I don't trim once fired brass. I don't chamfer, especially with boat tail bullets.

I am changing up a bit as I got a Lee APP. So I will decap on the APP, then swage on the APP. They can be cleaned before of after these steps.

Then I will lube and load, and give the loaded rounds a short tumble in corn cob to remove lube.

When I do trim, I have a Little Crow WFT II.

Ponder_MD · Feb 21, 2021

alucard0822 said:
I sort and tumble clean brass after I collect enough from the range.

Put a few handfuls of brass in a cardboard box, spray some lube, shake it, dump in my case feeder.

Run through progressive to decap, size, at least 1K rounds an hour.

Use the Frankfort case prep center to trim, chamfer, deburr, and flip to ream crimped primer pockets, toss in the tumbler to final clean and get lube off. Probably 500 cases an hour.

Run through the press, decap in position 1 cleans media out of the primer hole/pocket. Then prime, charge, place a bullet, seat, crimp, and it's done. 500 rounds an hour.

Start to finish I can do a thousand rounds from my bin of clean brass to completed ammo in about 5 hours of work, usually split it up by operation over a few nights. Trimming sucks worst, manual trimmers are torture, using a case holder in a drill is a little faster; but the Frankford prep center or possum hollow goes well enough. Would like a press mounted trimmer to get that done after sizing, and basically save an hour or more per K, but really only comes in handy with large runs, and I can live with what I got for only a few thousand a year.

Wow, you can really crank 'em out. We had a case trimming machine and a case prep center similar to Frankfort and it took us all damn day to do 100 rounds from soup to nuts.

It *might* have been faster if we had the 4-position die. Granted, my buddy spent a lot of time teaching me so that I could be a functional part of the process.

davsco · Feb 21, 2021

yeah handgun you can buy 9mm and 40 cases cleaned pretty cheap. then it's just throw them in the progressive press and start cranking them out. i've spent hours on prepping 223 brass and it is still not ready for priming, powder and bullets.

anyone know what new 223 brass went for a year or so ago before the covid/blm/reelection tax got levied? starline is oos everywhere and something like $220 minimum per thousand. not much cheaper than fully loaded .223 was a year ago.

mranaya · Feb 21, 2021

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
1. Universal deprimer
2. Chuck into ultrasonic
3. Rinse
4. Toaster oven wife never uses at low heat for 15 minutes
5. Lube and size on Lee Loadmaster
6. Trim, chamfer, deburr, primer pocket reamer to remove crimp (all on Frankford Arsenal Case Prep Center.
7. Chuck into Loadmaster for loading.

Disclaimer: I've never reloaded. But what is the toaster oven for? Dry the brass?

ST19AG_WGreymon · Feb 21, 2021

mranaya said:
Disclaimer: I've never reloaded. But what is the toaster oven for? Dry the brass?

Yep.

paperwork351 · Feb 21, 2021

Inspect for case head separation, neck splits and cracks. Uniform primer pocket once. Case guage check.

Trimming brass cramps my hand. Get a cheap hex magnetic screwdriver and these items. I think they are 223.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012835597?pid=476992 Set the cutter aside.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012838679?pid=107333 Set the length guage aside.

You want the lock stud and shellholder. Use it on the Giraud/OK Weber. You can do a quarter turn with it.

I am unaware of other tools. I don't think lee sells the items as a kit. Get shellholder only for 308.

paperwork351

cstone · Feb 21, 2021

Easiest method was belonging to a co-op years ago, where we all used a Dillon 1050 setup with a case trimmer. I could size, deprime, swage, and trim 1000 cases in about two hours. I would often wait until I had a five gallon bucket and make a day out of it. For runs of less than 1000, I have a Giraud and a Dillon Super Swager. I don't bother annealing because I lose brass or the primer pockets get blown out before I over work the necks. At least .223 brass is inexpensive and readily available (or was).

I would like a roll sizer, but just can't justify the expense and bench space. https://www.rollsizer.com/

Brass prep never ends as long as you are still shooting.

paperwork351 · Feb 22, 2021

This is the picture I'm trying to post with the screwdriver handle and lee trimmer items.

paperwork351

Major03 · Feb 22, 2021

And you haven't gone down the rabbit holes of neck uniformity, annealing, case volume measuring and flash hole deburring.

Case prep is one of those things that you COULD put in ridiculous amounts of time and money to get results that arguably are negligible to non existence depending on your ability to shoot.

Or you could minimize your processing to the bare essentials and still produce ammo that is better than most anything you could buy off the shelf. For example, there is no reason to tumble your brass, certainly not twice. Shiny brass is just pretty brass. A little case lube on it doesn't hurt your rifle at all. I like shiny brass too...but unless your brass is really corroded (in which case I'd just throw it out anyway) there is no NEED to tumble...certainly not twice.

If you do tumble, try corn cob instead of walnut. Less likely to get into primer pockets.

If you're doing mil surplus brass, you need to remove the crimp once. Dillon's Super Swager helps make short work of that chore if you have a lot, or a chamfer tool works ok for small batches. Or buy surplus brass that is pre swaged, its not too expensive.

With pre-swaged primer pockets, you could get away with...
- lube
- resize and deprime at the same time
- trim and chamfer

People crap on Lee products, but they have some inexpensive but very useful tools. One is the universal 3 jaw chuck, which if used in a cordless drill with their inexpensive trimmer makes pretty short work of trimming and chamfering without spending a lot.

Pinecone · Feb 22, 2021

cstone said:
Easiest method was belonging to a co-op years ago, where we all used a Dillon 1050 setup with a case trimmer. I could size, deprime, swage, and trim 1000 cases in about two hours. I would often wait until I had a five gallon bucket and make a day out of it. For runs of less than 1000, I have a Giraud and a Dillon Super Swager. I don't bother annealing because I lose brass or the primer pockets get blown out before I over work the necks. At least .223 brass is inexpensive and readily available (or was).

I would like a roll sizer, but just can't justify the expense and bench space. https://www.rollsizer.com/

Brass prep never ends as long as you are still shooting.

I would love to get my hands on a 1050 for a while.

I talked to Dillon at the big show at Harrisburg. The guy in the booth recommended I order a 1050, use it for what I needed, then return it within 30 days.

Neat idea, but I am not that kind of guy.

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2021

paperwork351 said:
This is the picture I'm trying to post with the screwdriver handle and lee trimmer items.

paperwork351

That’s how I do mine too. I’ve got the case gauge and trimmer on my prep center along with the chamfer cutters and the primer crimp remover.

paperwork351 · Feb 22, 2021

The attachments are newer than I have. What are the two right side pieces do?
I do have the old style flash hole deburrer in the station where the handle is. I could upgrade. I like the front left one. I could look at pictures of rcbs attachments. Looked, not rcbs. What are they Lee?

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2021

paperwork351 said:
The attachments are newer than I have. What are the two right side pieces do?
I do have the old style flash hole deburrer in the station where the handle is. I could upgrade. I like the front left one. I could look at pictures of rcbs attachments. Looked, not rcbs. What are they Lee?

Top, primer pocket brushes that used to be attached below before I started wet tumbling
Bottom:
Left rear, RCBS primer pocket swage cutter
Left front, Hornady outside case deburring tool
Right front, Hornaday chamfer tool
Right rear, Lee caliber specific case gauge attached to a Lee cutter that is in a homemade holder that I got from eBay a few years ago.
The cutter is held in the holder with a setscrew and it’s easy to take the case gauge/cutter out and replace it with different calibers as needed. After I size my brass I just start bottom right rear and go clockwise. I find the worst part now with trimming brass is putting the case in the holder.

inkd · Feb 22, 2021

cstone said:
Easiest method was belonging to a co-op years ago, where we all used a Dillon 1050 setup with a case trimmer. I could size, deprime, swage, and trim 1000 cases in about two hours. I would often wait until I had a five gallon bucket and make a day out of it. For runs of less than 1000, I have a Giraud and a Dillon Super Swager. I don't bother annealing because I lose brass or the primer pockets get blown out before I over work the necks. At least .223 brass is inexpensive and readily available (or was).

I would like a roll sizer, but just can't justify the expense and bench space. https://www.rollsizer.com/

Brass prep never ends as long as you are still shooting.

I scour ebay and gunbroker on occasion to see if I can find a 1050 that is going for a semi reasonable price so me and some friends can set it up for 5.56 processing. I have the press mounted cutter already.

paperwork351 · Feb 22, 2021

Thanks Buff7mm. Hornady compatable threads. I saw a video of that set screw holder but didn't know it lived on ebay. Go Hooligans!!

paperwork351

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2021

paperwork351 said:
Thanks Buff7mm. Hornady compatable threads. I saw a video of that set screw holder but didn't know it lived on ebay. Go Hooligans!!

paperwork351

I tried searching eBay for it and went back through my history, but I can’t remember exactly when I bought it and I have 1300 feedback so it’s next impossible.

damn, 223 case prep SUCKS

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