HB1263 - Enhanced Penalties for Loaded Handguns - my suggested talking points

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  • aray

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 6, 2010
    5,308
    MD -> KY
    Details of the bill:

    Synopsis: "Prohibiting a person from wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun loaded with ammunition on or about the person or in a vehicle under specified circumstances; prohibiting a person from possessing a regulated firearm loaded with ammunition under specified circumstances or if the person is under a specified age; establishing penalties for violations of the Act; requiring the State to comply with the procedures set forth in the Maryland Rules for the indictment and trial of a subsequent offender; etc."

    House hearing is on Tuesday March 15th at 1 PM. Senate hearing is likely on Wednesday 3/9 at 1 PM. I don't have the Senate bill number.

    Text of the bill is here and further details are located here.

    -----

    Suggested talking points:

    * Mandatory Minimums do not allow judges to distinguish between egregious violations of the law and technical violations of the law.

    * For suspects who use a gun while committing another crime, enhanced penalties could be a useful deterrent.

    * For individuals who make a mistake, judges are given no leeway.

    * This bill treats a repeat offender carrying a stolen gun who robs and rapes a woman the same as the victim who might be visiting, lawfully carrying a concealed weapon from her home state under permit, but not knowing that Maryland does not have carry reciprocity.

    * The bill is not necessary. There are already similar laws on the books to punish those who illegally carry a gun in the commission of a crime.

    * However the bill could be amended and made acceptable, even with mandatory minimums, if the conditions for enhanced penalties included carrying a loaded firearm while in the commission of another crime.

    * Frequently Maryland carry permit holders with a approved Good and Substantial reasons have restrictions placed on their permits that are subject to interpretation at best, and ambiguous at worst. This bill imposes a draconian punishment on a permit holder if the interpretation of the time, manner, and place contained in the restrictions are subject to dispute. Even technical or momentary infractions are dealt with in the most extreme fashion.

    * Other states with similar laws (e.g. NY, NJ) have had some extremely sad examples of people making very minor mistakes, who were prosecuted and sentenced using these draconian mandatory minimums. These include moms, correctional officers, nurses, and many other outstanding citizens with no prior criminal records.

    -----

    How to help:

    * Visit Annapolis in person. Show up and testify on Tuesday 3/15 for the House bill and 3/9 for the Senate bill. Sign up by noon to testify starting at 1 PM. If you want to provide written testimony, by 11 AM leave 30 copies for the House (20 for the Senate on a subsequent date). Then go speak with your delegates after the hearings. If you don't know who represents you in the GA, you can find that out here.

    * Make phone calls. Once you know who represents you, the entire list of GA legislators can be found here. Links off of that page will lead you to each legislator, to include his or her phone & fax numbers, office locations, individual email addresses, and other contact information.

    * Email your legislators, or even the entire General Assembly. There are convenient emailers at AGC or also the Civic Action email system. You don't need to cover all of the points I suggested above. Pick one, or two. Something in their inbox is better than nothing. In aggregate, we'll cover it all, but everyone has to do their part.

    Re: emails, I'd recommend you pick one bad bill a night and send it off. The drip drip drip of all of us flooding the GA's email servers every day and every week is much more effective than a one size fits all massive blast you only do once. You don't have to be wordy. Pick a bill, make your points, then come back the next night and do it again with another bill. When you've cycled through them all, have people you know believe the same way join in to do it too. Which leads me to:

    * Get your wife involved, your kids involved, your neighbors, your friends, your work colleagues who feel the same way, the folks on your social media accounts, etc. At the moment I'm not seeing the passion we need to stop this and other bad bills; we all need to do more.

    * I'd also suggest on all of those emails, calls, etc. that you contact Governor Larry Hogan as well, and ask him to veto the bill if it passes, stating the reasons why you believe he should do that. You can find his contact information here.

    By all means use any or all of the information above that you find helpful, but of course put it in your own words. This should be personalized to you otherwise cut & pastes will be recognized for what they are and ignored. It doesn't have to be long, it doesn't have to be eloquent - just speak from your heart even if brief and that will make a difference.

    -----

    Final comment:

    There's already opposition to this bill, ref: here. In Maryland that's no guarantee of success, but we should join with those Democratic leaders who are sympathetic to the abuses in this bill, and work with them to amend or stop this bill altogether. This is a great example of where "playing nice" can help us. While some are playing "bad cop" on other bills, we need a team that can legitimately play "good cop" on getting this bill amended or killed.
     
    Last edited:

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Great commentary. This bill should be stopped.

    The anti-gun people are just trying to add insult to the injury that is FSA2013. They seek to punish law abiding gun owners. Laws like this make normal citizens not want to own guns for legitimate purposes, because there are already too many laws, many are confusing and contradictory, and the punishments for even a minor technical infraction are ridiculously severe. And mandatory sentencing is ridiculous. They don't trust themselves with guns, and since they are already afraid of them, they will never have one, so this kind of law is for the little people, and gun owners.

    Commiting crime is already illegal. We have too many laws on the books now, we need less infringement, and more enforcement on actual criminals and violent offenders.



    This law, and many proposed over the years are not intended to actually deter criminals, they only do harm to law abiding citizens. People like Mike Miller are directly responsible for this miscarriage of justice - many of the laws they dream up have been determined to be illegal.

    Watch the video in my signature.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2016RS/bills/hb/hb1263f.pdf

    This bill is outrageous the way it's worded. At the top of page 2, criminal law subsection 4-203(a)(1)(i) makes it a disqualifying crime to "wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person". No exception is made for homes, businesses, or private property. The bill provides for exceptions where it says "Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section", but no such subsection exists in section 4-203. Seems hard to believe these are oversights.

    To be clear, this bill makes it a disqualifying crime to wear or carry a loaded handgun in your home or business or on private property. The bill makes it a disqualifying crime to transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle, with no exception for CCW permits. This bill effectively bans loaded handguns within the state of Maryland.
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2016RS/bills/hb/hb1263f.pdf

    This bill is outrageous the way it's worded. At the top of page 2, criminal law subsection 4-203(a)(1)(i) makes it a disqualifying crime to "wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person". No exception is made for homes, businesses, or private property. The bill provides for exceptions where it says "Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section", but no such subsection exists in section 4-203. Seems hard to believe these are oversights.

    To be clear, this bill makes it a disqualifying crime to wear or carry a loaded handgun in your home or business or on private property. The bill makes it a disqualifying crime to transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle, with no exception for CCW permits. This bill effectively bans loaded handguns within the state of Maryland.

    This is blatantly unconstitutional, no exceptions for ccw holders, private property, in the home, or anything. This MUST be stopped.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,109
    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2016RS/bills/hb/hb1263f.pdf

    This bill is outrageous the way it's worded. At the top of page 2, criminal law subsection 4-203(a)(1)(i) makes it a disqualifying crime to "wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person". No exception is made for homes, businesses, or private property. The bill provides for exceptions where it says "Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section", but no such subsection exists in section 4-203. Seems hard to believe these are oversights.

    That is because there were no changes to subsection (b). Just because it isn't in a bill does not mean it does not exist.

    I give you, subsection (b);

    (b) Exceptions. -- This section does not prohibit:

    (1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:

    (i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;

    (ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;

    (iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;

    (iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;

    (v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or

    (vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

    (2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun, in compliance with any limitations imposed under § 5-307 of the Public Safety Article, by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

    (3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

    (7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:

    (i) in the course of employment;

    (ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and

    (iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment;

    (8) the carrying or transporting of a signal pistol or other visual distress signal approved by the United States Coast Guard in a vessel on the waterways of the State or, if the signal pistol or other visual distress signal is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case, in a vehicle; or

    (9) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the handgun, if:

    (i) the handgun is unloaded;

    (ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the handgun is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

    (iii) the person transports the handgun directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

    To be clear, this bill makes it a disqualifying crime to wear or carry a loaded handgun in your home or business or on private property. The bill makes it a disqualifying crime to transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle, with no exception for CCW permits. This bill effectively bans loaded handguns within the state of Maryland.

    Please read the entire statute (including those subsections that are not changed) before making such statements as above. Since subsection (b) was not changed in anyway, your above statement is entirely incorrect, as evidenced by subsection (b) posted above.
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    Details of the bill:

    Synopsis: "Prohibiting a person from wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun loaded with ammunition on or about the person or in a vehicle under specified circumstances; prohibiting a person from possessing a regulated firearm loaded with ammunition under specified circumstances or if the person is under a specified age; establishing penalties for violations of the Act; requiring the State to comply with the procedures set forth in the Maryland Rules for the indictment and trial of a subsequent offender; etc."

    House hearing is on Tuesday March 15th at 1 PM. Senate hearing is likely on Wednesday 3/9 at 1 PM. I don't have the Senate bill number.

    Text of the bill is here and further details are located here.

    -----

    Suggested talking points:

    * Mandatory Minimums do not allow judges to distinguish between egregious violations of the law and technical violations of the law.

    * For suspects who use a gun while committing another crime, enhanced penalties could be a useful deterrent.

    * For individuals who make a mistake, judges are given no leeway.

    * This bill treats a repeat offender carrying a stolen gun who robs and rapes a woman the same as the victim who might be visiting, lawfully carrying a concealed weapon from her home state under permit, but not knowing that Maryland does not have carry reciprocity.

    * The bill is not necessary. There are already similar laws on the books to punish those who illegally carry a gun in the commission of a crime.

    * However the bill could be amended and made acceptable, even with mandatory minimums, if the conditions for enhanced penalties included carrying a loaded firearm while in the commission of another crime.

    * Frequently Maryland carry permit holders with a approved Good and Substantial reasons have restrictions placed on their permits that are subject to interpretation at best, and ambiguous at worst. This bill imposes a draconian punishment on a permit holder if the interpretation of the time, manner, and place contained in the restrictions are subject to dispute. Even technical or momentary infractions are dealt with in the most extreme fashion.

    * Other states with similar laws (e.g. NY, NJ) have had some extremely sad examples of people making very minor mistakes, who were prosecuted and sentenced using these draconian mandatory minimums. These include moms, correctional officers, nurses, and many other outstanding citizens with no prior criminal records.

    -----

    How to help:

    * Visit Annapolis in person. Show up and testify on Tuesday 3/15 for the House bill and 3/9 for the Senate bill. Sign up by noon to testify starting at 1 PM. If you want to provide written testimony, by 11 AM leave 30 copies for the House (20 for the Senate on a subsequent date). Then go speak with your delegates after the hearings. If you don't know who represents you in the GA, you can find that out here.

    * Make phone calls. Once you know who represents you, the entire list of GA legislators can be found here. Links off of that page will lead you to each legislator, to include his or her phone & fax numbers, office locations, individual email addresses, and other contact information.

    * Email your legislators, or even the entire General Assembly. There are convenient emailers at AGC or also the Civic Action email system. You don't need to cover all of the points I suggested above. Pick one, or two. Something in their inbox is better than nothing. In aggregate, we'll cover it all, but everyone has to do their part.

    Re: emails, I'd recommend you pick one bad bill a night and send it off. The drip drip drip of all of us flooding the GA's email servers every day and every week is much more effective than a one size fits all massive blast you only do once. You don't have to be wordy. Pick a bill, make your points, then come back the next night and do it again with another bill. When you've cycled through them all, have people you know believe the same way join in to do it too. Which leads me to:

    * Get your wife involved, your kids involved, your neighbors, your friends, your work colleagues who feel the same way, the folks on your social media accounts, etc. At the moment I'm not seeing the passion we need to stop this and other bad bills; we all need to do more.

    * I'd also suggest on all of those emails, calls, etc. that you contact Governor Larry Hogan as well, and ask him to veto the bill if it passes, stating the reasons why you believe he should do that. You can find his contact information here.

    By all means use any or all of the information above that you find helpful, but of course put it in your own words. This should be personalized to you otherwise cut & pastes will be recognized for what they are and ignored. It doesn't have to be long, it doesn't have to be eloquent - just speak from your heart even if brief and that will make a difference.

    -----

    Final comment:

    There's already opposition to this bill, ref: here. In Maryland that's no guarantee of success, but we should join with those Democratic leaders who are sympathetic to the abuses in this bill, and work with them to amend or stop this bill altogether. This is a great example of where "playing nice" can help us. While some are playing "bad cop" on other bills, we need a team that can legitimately play "good cop" on getting this bill amended or killed.



    So were you against Smigiel's bill to create mandatory minimum for crimes committed with a firearm and not allow for good time credits?
     

    vgplayer

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    1,069
    King George, VA


    Not totally relevant but I could imagine a scenario were you are transporting a firearm and get involved in an accident and now facing mandatory minimum.
     

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