Safes and waterproofing

AKbythebay · Oct 28, 2009

I notice that the cheaper safes that Dick's sells say they are waterproof to up to 2 feet of standing water. They are even guaranteed for up to 48 hours.

Is this for real? I have often heard that there's no such thing as a waterproof safe.

How come the much more expensive Browning safes don't claim that they are waterproof.

Is this just nonsense from Stack-On or are they really waterproof. I'm putting a safe in my basement so the potential for flooding (although unlikely) is much more of a possibility than fire.

Here's the stack-on safe that I'm talking about:
http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus/total_defense_series/gsxw-536.html

erwos · Oct 28, 2009

I have the 28-gun version of that safe. The waterproofing guarantee is only if you bolt it down. Not sure why. *shrugs* Pretty nice safe otherwise, and it doesn't seem to have moisture issues that some of the other fireproof ones have.

I think the thing about not being able to waterproof a safe is in the more permanent and total "waterproof" sense. If you dropped a safe into a deep lake for 48 hours, I rather doubt it would be intact.

E.Shell · Oct 28, 2009

erwos said:
....The waterproofing guarantee is only if you bolt it down. Not sure why. *shrugs*......

1) Water will enter empty bolt holes?
2) Unsecured safe will float and topple?

inkd · Oct 28, 2009

I have that one too and I like it, I always wondered about the requirement to bolt it down too? I think all of these are also electric locks where you enter a 4 digit code. Do yourself a favor and take a battery with you to the store and check the lock out before you take it home. I moved mine into the house, put all my guns in it, installed the battery and set it all up and when I tried to lock it, it would not lock. After a call to Dicks they said I could bring it back and exchange it, I wasn't willing to move that heavy SOB back to the store. I pulled the inside lining off the door and figured out why it wouldn't latch, I had to take the mechanism apart and file some more metal off so it would fully engage. I wasn't a real happy camper on the phone to stack on, they did ask me what the number on the quality sticker was, they said that they could find out who did the final inspection on it and that they would find out what happened. It was a minor PITA for me but for someone who didn't have any tools or not much mechanical knowledge, it would have really sucked to have to pack it back up and haul it back to the store. How's that KAHR working out for you? :-)

AKbythebay · Oct 28, 2009

But shy do cheap safes like Stack-ons offer waterproofing and safes that colst 2-3x as much not??? I don't get it.

and is the waterproofing for real?

E.Shell is right about that by the way. Friend at work has one and he asked the installers and they said the exact same thing. If the safe floats it will topple over and the waterproofing is only up to 2 ft of water. And the pre-drilled holes need to be bolted down or water would enter there.

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 28, 2009

erwos said:
I have the 28-gun version of that safe. The waterproofing guarantee is only if you bolt it down. Not sure why. *shrugs* Pretty nice safe otherwise, and it doesn't seem to have moisture issues that some of the other fireproof ones have.

I think the thing about not being able to waterproof a safe is in the more permanent and total "waterproof" sense. If you dropped a safe into a deep lake for 48 hours, I rather doubt it would be intact.

Its because the bolts supplied have rubber gaskets to fill around the holes in the bottom of the safe, thus if its not bolted, then you have holes in the bottom. holes= not waterproof

I have the same safe, 28gun, so far mine is NOT bolted only due to fear of cracking the floor and causing more issues, i am debating putting it on a concrete pedestal and bolting to that or cutting the bolts short putting in from bottom and just having the stubby bolts protrude into the safe. Mine is also in the basement.

Jaybeez · Oct 28, 2009

Rmember that a waterproof safe will keep water out, but it will also keep moisture in. Dessicant is critical, i'm fighting the same problem with my ammo safe.

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 28, 2009

Jaybeez said:
Rmember that a waterproof safe will keep water out, but it will also keep moisture in. Dessicant is critical, i'm fighting the same problem with my ammo safe.

Agreed, i use one of each of these. The box type i bake bag inside for about 3hrs when the strip on the bottom turns pink( once every 2 months) the Remington one just plugs into the wall when you see the desiccant turn pink

erwos · Oct 28, 2009

Oldcarjunkie said:
Agreed, i use one of each of these. The box type i bake bag inside for about 3hrs when the strip on the bottom turns pink( once every 2 months) the Remington one just plugs into the wall when you see the desiccant turn pink

How funny, I'm using that exact same one. Got it for free from Dick's after buying the safe from them. Seems to work OK (mine is starting the transition from dark blue, so it's clearly doing something).

My guns all have plastic stocks, and I keep the handguns on top, so I'm not TOO worried about flooding anyways. Just a nice option to have in case I do get it bolted down sometime.

The lock is _not_ electronic. In fact, the salesman claimed that they stopped putting electronic locks on the current (newer) version of the safe. Not sure I believe him, but there's clearly a non-electronic option available.

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 28, 2009

erwos said:
How funny, I'm using that exact same one. Got it for free from Dick's after buying the safe from them. Seems to work OK (mine is starting the transition from dark blue, so it's clearly doing something).

My guns all have plastic stocks, and I keep the handguns on top, so I'm not TOO worried about flooding anyways. Just a nice option to have in case I do get it bolted down sometime.

The lock is _not_ electronic. In fact, the salesman claimed that they stopped putting electronic locks on the current (newer) version of the safe. Not sure I believe him, but there's clearly a non-electronic option available.

Yup got my safe from Dicks in Glenburnie, Put it in the wifes Xterra and even got the door shut.

Combo lock on mine too, I actually wanted a combo lock after talking to a friend who's house burnt pretty much to the ground, he was able to walk over ,dust off the knob and open his safe, he said this would not have been the case if it was electronic and he would have had to call a locksmith.
While thats questionable, and im sure its luck of the draw, ill take my chances with the combo lock.

Kim79 · Oct 28, 2009

Anyone who is getting one of these; they are on sale this week for 550.00 plus go online for an additional 10%off hunting dept..Well argued they will give you the extra 10% off.

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 28, 2009

I seen the 24 gun on the flyer for 549.00, but im not sure thats the water resistant one.

If you guys miss it this week dont worry, black friday is coming and there will be a sale, I got my 28 gun" total defense" for 599.00 after rebate and instant savings, and while i was there i filled out a dicks score card thing and ended up getting another 50.00 check back, so for 550.00 i walked with the safe they now want over a 1000 for. at the time it was marked down from 899.00 i think, and that was last year

safecracker · Oct 28, 2009

It all depends on your definition of 'waterproof'. Does it mean that NO water whatsoever, including condensation, can enter the safe? Or do they mean that they simple have weatherstripping around the door to slow the entry of water into the safe?

Realistically, a truly waterproof safe would be cost prohibitive to the average consumer. It would require a very tight fitting door with gasketing and a pressure system to operate the door - like a hatch on a ship.

'Waterproof', like 'fire proof', is a murky term whose definition varies from one manufacturer to the next. Oftentimes, fire protection means nothing more than drywall sheets epoxied to the inner walls of a safe. It will provide some protection, but in a real fire you had better have a good insurance policy. While UL has rating labels for fire protection on safes, I have never seen or heard of any commercially available safe that carries a specific resistance rating for water or moisture.

clandestine · Oct 28, 2009

Just some things I have learned.......

Fireproofing is worthless! Waterproofing is ok, but not necessary.

Use the extra money you would have spent and buy the next size up.

I have seen guns that were in VERY expensive "Fire Rated" Safes, the fires were short (Not much heat near the guns), and the guns were still damaged by the heat (Burned Stocks, Busted Scopes, and Melted Plastic) Smoke also finds its way in and eats at the metal, along with whatever moisture from putting out the fire the dehumidifier cant keep up with. It’s bad, bad.

A safe is good for one thing, keeping thieves away and buying time.

Best bet to not give thieves time to get your safe open is to have a good Security System or Dog.

Get a "rider" insurance policy to cover all of your guns, the accessories, and the work done to them. An appraisals and receipts help.

Buy the biggest safe you can afford, don’t get fireproofing.
If you can mount the safe in the lowest area of your house (basement if possible).

Build up a 12" poured "platform" this will help keep the safe from flooding if there’s a fire or if there is a flood. This is more important than having waterproof features.

Bolt the safe to that platform with glued in concrete anchor bolts so someone can’t topple or move it easily.

If you can install a sprinkler system around the safe to keep the area cool enough to minimize the damage, but it’s probably like farting in the wind.

If you can double up on the dehumidifier. The plug in ones can loose power. I like to keep a silica version and a plug in version to be sure.

Just some things I have learned.

Old Soda machines make great "incognito" gun safes once gutted. Theives wouldnt think twice about breaking into on to get sodas, abeer machine might not have the same effect.

AKbythebay · Oct 29, 2009

clandestine said:
Just some things I have learned.......

Fireproofing is worthless! Waterproofing is ok, but not necessary.

Use the extra money you would have spent and buy the next size up.

I have seen guns that were in VERY expensive "Fire Rated" Safes, the fires were short (Not much heat near the guns), and the guns were still damaged by the heat (Burned Stocks, Busted Scopes, and Melted Plastic) Smoke also finds its way in and eats at the metal, along with whatever moisture from putting out the fire the dehumidifier cant keep up with. It’s bad, bad.

A safe is good for one thing, keeping thieves away and buying time.

Best bet to not give thieves time to get your safe open is to have a good Security System or Dog.

Get a "rider" insurance policy to cover all of your guns, the accessories, and the work done to them. An appraisals and receipts help.

Buy the biggest safe you can afford, don’t get fireproofing.
If you can mount the safe in the lowest area of your house (basement if possible).

Build up a 12" poured "platform" this will help keep the safe from flooding if there’s a fire or if there is a flood. This is more important than having waterproof features.

Bolt the safe to that platform with glued in concrete anchor bolts so someone can’t topple or move it easily.

If you can install a sprinkler system around the safe to keep the area cool enough to minimize the damage, but it’s probably like farting in the wind.

If you can double up on the dehumidifier. The plug in ones can loose power. I like to keep a silica version and a plug in version to be sure.

Just some things I have learned.

Old Soda machines make great "incognito" gun safes once gutted. Theives wouldnt think twice about breaking into on to get sodas, abeer machine might not have the same effect.

Good tips on there!

I was thinking of building some type of platform but had not considered any type of concrete system. Was just ging to use 4x4 pressure treated boards to build a frame under it and to get it up off the ground in case of flood. I figure if I have >4" of water in my basement I have bigger problems than my guns.

Any tips on building a wood platform?

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 29, 2009

AKbythebay said:
Good tips on there!

I was thinking of building some type of platform but had not considered any type of concrete system. Was just ging to use 4x4 pressure treated boards to build a frame under it and to get it up off the ground in case of flood. I figure if I have >4" of water in my basement I have bigger problems than my guns.

Any tips on building a wood platform?

+1 , and i like the Soda machine idea, I have thought about putting something in the garage and didnt want something that screams look inside. Plus it might be doable if my company has any that they are tossing.

mike_in_md · Oct 29, 2009

I like the soda machine idea. It's a good way for my friends to chip in to buy me more guns. :evilgrin3

clandestine · Oct 29, 2009

AKbythebay said:
Good tips on there!

I was thinking of building some type of platform but had not considered any type of concrete system. Was just ging to use 4x4 pressure treated boards to build a frame under it and to get it up off the ground in case of flood. I figure if I have >4" of water in my basement I have bigger problems than my guns.

Any tips on building a wood platform?

Just before I started doing I.T. work for my Company, I installed and Serviced Cash Depository Safes for the Armored Car Company.

I did make wood boxes for concrete molds, but they were just for that purpose. After that I used my hammer drill (I still have that if you need to borrow it) and drilled 6" deep 3/4" rund holes and inserted anchor studs with hydraulic epoxy (Bonds to the concrete), slid the safe in place and bolted her down.

I never was allowed to put safes on a wood paltform because it was a weak point for securing the safe. The wood can be cut very easily with a saw-zaw, or pry bar, the platform flexes and allows a pry bar under them or a metal cutting saw-zaw blade in between to cut the anchor bolts off.

I used to do break in demos for customers who insisted their bases were secure. Hacking up and breaking into safes was sorta my specialty.

If you only could use wood, Probably the best platform would be one made ofo criss crossed wood the size or railroad ties, since they are extremely thick and heavy.

Let me know if I can help.

Oldcarjunkie said:
+1 , and i like the Soda machine idea, I have thought about putting something in the garage and didnt want something that screams look inside. Plus it might be doable if my company has any that they are tossing.

Yup, I used to work for a company named CoinCo, and many of the Vendors would strip their old machines for parts and dump the body. Most would let you have them if you haul them away. Worst case they may ask $30 for one.

I actually helped a friend convert 2 to safes for his den. One was for real, one was for his rifles, and one for his handguns and carbines. He had 3 total but one was functional. His "Diet" soda column was the BEER! :innocent0

The converted ones still let up and everything.

mike_in_md said:
I like the soda machine idea. It's a good way for my friends to chip in to buy me more guns.

Oldcarjunkie · Oct 29, 2009

clandestine said:
I actually helped a friend convert 2 to safes for his den. One was for real, one was for his rifles, and one for his handguns and carbines. He had 3 total but one was functional. His "Diet" soda column was the BEER!

The converted ones still let up and everything.

Did everything unbolt out of it? or did you or the company cut it out? i have access to a plasma cutter if needed

AKbythebay · Oct 29, 2009

Sounds like a concrete platform is the way to go then. How difficult of a job is it to build one? I have no experience working with concrete. I assume just build a box with the inside dimensions slightly larger than the dimensions of the base of the safe, then just fill with pour-in-place concrete?

Safes and waterproofing

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