Keyholing LWRCI DI with <4K rounds

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  • LongRanger300

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 14, 2020
    74
    So my LWRCI DI gun that I bought about 4 years ago started keyholing. It was about 3 in every 10 rounds fired. I’m running range safe (non-bimetal bullet) Tula steel cased and PPU brass cased Ammo. I noticed it while testing my POA/POI at 50 and 25 yards preping for my first 2 gun match.

    A friend suggested I use Hoppes copper remover which I did according to the bottle (wet dry patches, brush, wet patch overnight, wet dry patches until clean, then oil/protectant). Well that got me down to about 1 in every 10 rounds keyholing.

    I’m wondering if I should contact LWRCI and have them check the gun out to see if there is an issue that needs repairing. I can’t believe the barrel is “shot out” with such a low volume of rounds through it.

    Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

    Also I noticed my gas rings on my bolt were loose (didn’t pass the supporting the BCG weight test but I’m not sure if that is a factor).


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    LongRanger300

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 14, 2020
    74
    0ed196991d44c62a37353709519fbc85.jpg

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    Swaim13

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2017
    327
    What weight bullet are you running? Google is telling me that the DI should have a 1:7 twist rate. Is that correct? Did you change ammo recently? 4k rounds is not enough to wear out a 5.56 to that degree. Have you checked the torque on all of your bolts?
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,179
    Sun City West, AZ
    Try it with a different brand ammunition and see whether the problem shows again. Eliminating the ammunition as the problem is the easiest thing. The bullets could be undersized...some quality control issues with production lots are not uncommon.

    It's not necessarily round count that wears a barrel out...it's heat erosion, primer and powder compounds and cleaning regimen or even over cleaning that can affect barrel life. I'm not insinuating this is what's happening or you are doing anything wrong. You need to take a good look at the lands and grooves. You've already said the problem improved after cleaning it with copper remover so you seem to be on the right track.

    About thirty years ago when my police agency received a new shipment of revolvers another instructor and I took them to the range for testing...one keyholes or missed the target altogether. It had no rifling in the barrel at all...a smoothbore. It passed through every quality control inspector and no one saw it had a smoothbore barrel. While that's an extreme example and was that way from the factory it's also at least possible the steel in your barrel may have been substandard for some reason and wore early.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,179
    Sun City West, AZ
    I would change ammunition. Years ago a buddy attended law enforcement rifle instructor school and bought a bunch of Norinco brand .223 ammo...worst...dirtiest stuff evah! He said after every twenty rounds or so he had to clean the barrel to keep it functioning. If it wasn't for other students with extra quality ammunition helping him out he may not have successfully completed the course.

    Ammunition matters.
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    ****If you can borrow or know someone with a good bore scope you can get a better idea if it is wear or copper fouling, etc... I'd clean it again, perhaps consider using a different commercial grade copper remover.

    It is unlikely the barrel is worn with that low a round count, unless something happened in the tempering or machining of the barrel, or it is damaged for some other reason. I had copper fouling issues in a rifle some time back, after a LOT of rounds, and it took several cleanings, especially at the muzzle end which had a flash hider attached so it was difficult to see how much carbon and copper had collected at the crown area which caused the keyholing in my case.
     

    Swaim13

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2017
    327
    I agree w Bob. Ammunition makes a world of difference. With a 17 twist barrel, try something in the 62 to 75 gr bullet weight range and see how it does.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    I would change ammunition. Years ago a buddy attended law enforcement rifle instructor school and bought a bunch of Norinco brand .223 ammo...worst...dirtiest stuff evah! He said after every twenty rounds or so he had to clean the barrel to keep it functioning. If it wasn't for other students with extra quality ammunition helping him out he may not have successfully completed the course.

    Ammunition matters.

    Your absolutely right, but I would simply do some basic maintenance and inspection first before I went down the ammo rabbit hole.

    The image of the keyholed target, almost..... but not sure looks like boat-tailed bullets.

    A few rounds of flat based bullets after a good clean that do not keyhole would be indicative of a wear-forcement problem in the lead/throat before I called the manufacturer looking for a barrel.
    Could also be a severe muzzle problem that's been missed.

    Maybe the OP has a buddy with a different ammo type that he can use to identify an improvement.

    But I would clean to remove as much metallic fouling as I could first.
     

    LongRanger300

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 14, 2020
    74
    Thanks for the feedback. I’ll run some more copper remover through and see how that helps. I usually clean it after every 2-3 trips to the range with Hoppes Bore cleaner this was the first time I’ve done the copper remover.

    I’m running 62 grain Tula range safe (non-bimetal bullet) and 55 grain PPU right now. I have some 62 grain federal green tip ammo stocked up too so I’ll run that after another good cleaning and see what happens.

    I’m running a VG6 Epsilon muzzle break too. It hasn’t changed in timing but there may be some carbon built up under it around it. I’ll check there too. I appreciate the feedback.


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    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    Mag dumps especially with the offshore steel case stuff will wear a barrel faster. The powder used doesn’t play well with barrel steel if it stays hot. Bimetal bullets don’t help as well.
     

    LongRanger300

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 14, 2020
    74
    Keyholing LWRCI DI with &lt;4K rounds

    Mag dumps especially with the offshore steel case stuff will wear a barrel faster. The powder used doesn’t play well with barrel steel if it stays hot. Bimetal bullets don’t help as well.


    Yeah, I have been trying to be mindful of the wear and tear on my ARs. I’m running non-bimetal bullets for my steel cased ammo since the range I frequent doesn’t allow bimetal bullets and I don’t do mag dumps.


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    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    Is it the silver bullet Tula? I bought some of that stuff when they first changed over from the copper washed bullets. Both the 9mm and .223 flavors left what looked like leading in my barrels. I can’t remember if they were magnetic but I swore off of Tula after that.
     

    cb1980

    Active Member
    Jul 25, 2016
    364
    I have an LWRC DI that is about the same age as yours and by now approaching 5k rounds, only thing through the gun is federal .223 or 5.56 and I haven't even taken the gun apart for a thorough cleaning yet and I have no issues with the gun, not FTF or FTE, bullets shoot straight with no key holing and I have looked down the bore a few times with a bore scope and I would swear there is no more than a few hundred rounds worth of wear on that gun
     

    CMOS

    One ragged donut hole
    Nov 13, 2009
    608
    MoCo
    over the years, I've had to send stuff to LWRC to get serviced. Even during height of pandemic around April, they had like a two day turnaround on an upper.
    Service rates were reasonable. I wouldn't stress it. Would send in the upper (and the targets showing the keyholing) and not stress it for another minute.
    But yeah, before that, would definitely try some other ammo.
     

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,380
    Hampstead
    Thanks for the feedback. I’ll run some more copper remover through and see how that helps. I usually clean it after every 2-3 trips to the range with Hoppes Bore cleaner this was the first time I’ve done the copper remover.

    I’m running 62 grain Tula range safe (non-bimetal bullet) and 55 grain PPU right now. I have some 62 grain federal green tip ammo stocked up too so I’ll run that after another good cleaning and see what happens.

    I’m running a VG6 Epsilon muzzle break too. It hasn’t changed in timing but there may be some carbon built up under it around it. I’ll check there too. I appreciate the feedback.


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    Check for bullet strikes on your brake. The timing (the orientation of the gas ports) shouldn’t have anything to do with key-holing, but if the brake is not on straight, it could be infringing on the bullet’s path. I’d try shooting it without the brake for one range session, maybe the problem is the muzzle device itself. If it’s not the OEM device from LWRCI they may not stand behind the warranty of the rifle, I’d rule that out before proceeding. Good luck.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Mag dumps especially with the offshore steel case stuff will wear a barrel faster. The powder used doesn’t play well with barrel steel if it stays hot. Bimetal bullets don’t help as well.
    4k steel-cased isn't gonna produce key-holing in a quality barrel, bimetal or not. If it does, that's a defective barrel and it needs to go back to LWRC.

    I do like the suggestion to check your muzzle device.
     

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