Changing inner city votes and views on guns and 2A
- Thread starter bwags123
- Start date
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You don't remember correctly. He was reaching for his license and insurance that the cop asked for, when he felt the need to inform the cop that he had a gun. The cop then drew his gun, told him to "stop reaching" (he was already looking for his license), pointed and fired.
We should absolutely be in Philando Castile's corner.
If my memory serves me, (and it does sometimes), it was you, dbls and me putting a little pale skin in the game that day.
Fvck skin color. The name of the game is Liberty.
Yep, it was also his very first outing doing this. It would be nice if he came back to Baltimore for a repeat and reach more people.
bwags123
Active Member
Yea I was thinking this could happen. Especially if they think you are mocking or making fun of black lives matter
bwags123
Active Member
Yea I was thinking this could happen. Especially if they thought you were mocking or making fun of black lives matter could to some people off.
This...We should be speaking out about every one of these incidents, instead of saying "I'd have to see the police reports, interviews, and other evidence to know what happened (not assign guilt)".
If we, as a community, want to be inclusive, then that includes stepping up and supporting the other communities when they have issues, and not just expecting them to show up in Annapolis "because the 2A is for everyone" When clearly it hasn't been until the last 50 years. And before anyone says I'm wrong in that statement, think about this. That is the perception of 90% of the minorities out there, and their perception is their reality, and the sooner we get on board with that and support them, the sooner more minorities will see that we care more about ensuring the 2A is for everyone instead of "just using them on hearing days to inject some color in the discussion".
Exactly. Most people assume I'm making fun of black lives matter. Funny thing is, the people who get offended tend to avoid me completely but a lot of people are really excited to share their racism with me. I've never had someone attack me verbally or physically for wearing it (despite a lot of dirty looks) but I've had tons of people approach me and say things along the lines of "hey I love your shirt. I'm racist and love guns too but don't have the balls to advertise it" then they get really freaked when I explain what the shirt means. They're like "oh yeah okay wink wink I get what you're doing" and I have to try to push the point that they're not making a friend.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
If it happened to a white guy, he might recall the facts a lot better and be a lot more outraged by what happened to Castille.
No response from him since GTODave posted the video, or did I miss it?
Steve_Zissou
Ultimate Member
While I guess I admire his dedication, this is a fool's errand if ever there was one.
You'll sooner sell the white milennial left on gun rights as a hedge against Trump-style government tyranny than you will ever stand a chance of flipping deep-blue "urban" voters into 2A advocates.
bwags123
Active Member
jcutonilli
Ultimate Member
- Mar 28, 2013
- 2,474
I would argue that the data is a bit misleading. The FBI compiles data on LEO deaths. https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/publications#LEOKA The 2018 numbers have not been released yet, but the 2017 data and the preceding 10 years show that on average more die officers from accidents than are feloniously killed although specific years do see the opposite.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/tables/table-1.xls show feloniously killed numbers.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/tables/table-48.xls show accidentily killed numbers.
Total 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017
Number of feloniously killed officers 496 41 48 55 72 49 27 51 41 66 46
Total 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017
Number of accidentily killed officers 527 68 48 72 53 48 49 45 45 52 47
You make an awful assumption on his audience.
Steve_Zissou
Ultimate Member
I'd love to be proven wrong, but as far as demographic groups go, I can't think of a single other one that's as overwhelmingly and unwaveringly tied to the Democratic party.
As such, I think you'd have a lot more success going after other, far more "purple" demos that are much more generally receptive to the sorts of libertarian-flavored ideologies that underpin any strong advocacy for the 2nd.
Then again, leave it to CPAC to fiddle on about whatever Adelson and the rest of the big money wants them to do while the nationalist/populist future of the Republican party lies burning.
Most importantly, it draws on a clear, established example case. If you want to get someone to understand your message, you want real world and preferably related examples.
When you need to explain the idea that the gov't has specific limitations on whether it can block citizen's rights, it makes sense to point out a within some of our lifetimes example of gov't abuse of civil rights.
When you need to explain the important and practicality of citizens maintaining ownership of their own defense, as opposed to "but that's what police are for" it makes sense to point out the reality of a demographic who has a history of high profile examples of their demographic not being properly served by the police.
When you want to explain the utter lunacy of suggesting the govt should be able to come do confiscation raids based on unsubstantiated government or witness statements about "what you might do", then pointing out how that would have affected MLK or Malcom X, pointing out how that would have been abused by COINTELPRO is 100% a logical and effective discussion point.
Did you ever think that the inner city communities aren't so much deep blue, because they vote for them, as they vote for them because there are no other options? When was the last time you talked to anyone from inner city Baltimore and asked them their views of their elected officials? I can tell you, most of them have absolutely no trust in their elected officials, but they have no other options come election day.
Bullfrog
Ultimate Member
First, I want to say that I agree 100% with the goals outlined in this thread. My only point in posting was to suggest that you use clear examples that support your goal.
Remember how "Hands up, don't shoot" became a slogan, when later eyewitness testimony and autopsy results showed Brown did not have his hands up at all.
I should have posted the first 2 sentences in this post and stopped, because I had no intention of turning this into another debate thread.
Not entirely. He was told "stop reaching", then after that "don't pull it out" twice more... then the officer fired multiple times and he was told don't reach/don't move 4 more times.
I had thought the shooting came later, like after 5 or so warnings, but I was wrong, it was 3 warnings.
There are mistakes all around. What the officer wanted was for him to stop reaching/stop moving period, but thats not what he said. "Don't pull it out" was an unfortunate phrase to use. Castile's thoughts were most likely "I'm not pulling it out, just getting my ID...", instead of "I need to stop reaching/stop moving my hands."
You may argue that the cop could have waited until he saw what was in his hand, but I've never been in that position and I find it hard to make a judgement. The jury apparently felt he did not overreact.
I HAVE been in Castile's position, and I was told once not to reach for it. That was sufficient warning. I'm not judging him, maybe it was adrenalin, maybe it was miscommunication, "I'm reaching for id, not the firearm, so i'm ok to keep moving...?"
What it leaves, is an ambiguous situation. You are going to have many people on one side saying it was an injustice, and many people on the other saying "Why did he keep reaching?" Some may even assume he actually was reaching for the gun.
Remember how "Hands up, don't shoot" became a slogan, when later eyewitness testimony and autopsy results showed Brown did not have his hands up at all.
I should have posted the first 2 sentences in this post and stopped, because I had no intention of turning this into another debate thread.
Not entirely. He was told "stop reaching", then after that "don't pull it out" twice more... then the officer fired multiple times and he was told don't reach/don't move 4 more times.
I had thought the shooting came later, like after 5 or so warnings, but I was wrong, it was 3 warnings.
There are mistakes all around. What the officer wanted was for him to stop reaching/stop moving period, but thats not what he said. "Don't pull it out" was an unfortunate phrase to use. Castile's thoughts were most likely "I'm not pulling it out, just getting my ID...", instead of "I need to stop reaching/stop moving my hands."
You may argue that the cop could have waited until he saw what was in his hand, but I've never been in that position and I find it hard to make a judgement. The jury apparently felt he did not overreact.
I HAVE been in Castile's position, and I was told once not to reach for it. That was sufficient warning. I'm not judging him, maybe it was adrenalin, maybe it was miscommunication, "I'm reaching for id, not the firearm, so i'm ok to keep moving...?"
What it leaves, is an ambiguous situation. You are going to have many people on one side saying it was an injustice, and many people on the other saying "Why did he keep reaching?" Some may even assume he actually was reaching for the gun.
Bullfrog
Ultimate Member
Don't presume to know what I'm thinking, or assume that I make decisions the way that you apparently do.
Everything I stated about that situation applies regardless of the color of either individual. It applies even if I were the one in the driver's seat being shot because I ignored 3 warnings. None of that would change my opinion in the matter.
And that means what? I decide when I want to use my phone, not the other way around. I don't use notifications or anything like that. Its shocking, I know, but some days I don't even come here.
bwags123
Active Member
I agree bullfrog with your thoughts. I have been pulled over quite a few times while carrying and I always keep my hands through the steering wheel not just on top and never move until asked. Now I have never been asked if I was carrying either. There is a part of me that does this out of respect and fear and the belief that I have been taught to show respect to police officers. That being said there is a part of me that feels like I should not have to fear for my life just because I’m carrying or not carrying a gun. I feel like they should be treated with respect just as I would any other human being not just because they are police officers. And I feel like that’s what some people become police for is the respect they receive or the feeling of being above the normal everyday person. And I’m not saying that is all police because I do have them in my family and have even thought about it myself when I was younger. And if I was I would want people to treat me like a normal person not someone they have to talk up to if that makes sense.
I don't have great eyesight, but I cannot tell anything from that video.
If/when I get pulled over, both my hand go out the window so the cop can see them.
Squaregrouper
Kragaphile
I do: car in park, dome light on, hands on steering wheel. I never get my license, registration and proof of insurance until requested. I figure the cop would rather wait the extra minute vs. wondering what the hell I'm doing as he/she approaches the vehicle.
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