158 grain HARD CAST over Unique

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

Can't seem to find my favored Alliant 2400 the last few months. :sad20:

Loading for a 6 inch Ruger GP100 .357 primarily. I loaded 6.0 grains of Unique under a 158 grain .358 BH18 Missouri bevel based hard cast bullet. Loaded 15 rounds only with a moderate crimp at 1.57 as a test. Load shot ok enough for accuracy but I was looking for (and did note) the slightest trace of leading. I think I may be pushing this BH18 just a tad too slow.

The current load data I have indicates 6.0 grains of Unique as a max load with 158 grain lead, but with reference to a swaged rather than a hard cast bullet. I also have some old data showing loads for hard cast lead being as high as the 7.6 to 8.5 grain range with Unique. There's mention made of the 6.2 to 6.8 grain charge range as well.

Any of you guys have experience with this Unique and hard cast combo? Not expecting or striving for 2400 top end performance, but rather a decent and leading free load while I use the components I have until I can find the 2400 I much prefer.

Thanks

iH8DemLibz · Jul 13, 2015

Alliant Powder has a good web site for on-line data.

Unique is a great powder for my .45 Long Colt loads.

Give the site a try if you haven't already.

Others will chime in, but I try to stay below 1,600 FPS with hard cast/leading issues.

byf43 · Jul 13, 2015

UD,

From the "All American Bullets" (all hardcast) loading manual that I have.

.357 magnum

158 grain hardcast lead

Unique

Start - 6.0 grains
Velocity - 1128 fps

Max - 7.5 grains
Velocity - 1304 fps
Max energy - 596 fpe

wgttgw · Jul 13, 2015

My guess is it is not the powder charge or that the bullet is too soft but the size or lube of the bullets. 18 BHN would be plenty if everything else is right. 11-12 BHN would have been what keith used in the 44 or 357 with a lot hotter charge

The quickest or easiest solution may be to tumble lube right over the commercial lube.

What size are the bullets and have you slugged the throats or barrel?

j8064 · Jul 13, 2015

Uncle Duke,

My RCBS CB manual says:
Unique/158 gr SWC = 6.5 start (1010 MV) to 7.0 (1089 MV).

Based on my years of fun with Unique it's bound to be a sooty load.

wgttgw · Jul 13, 2015

I read the OP again, and to directly answer the question, I routinely use 6 gr of unique with a the Lee 158 RF cast in air cooled WW. My 357 has never shot cast that great but the load has been typical of the performance of other cast loads in my Smith and no leading.

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

j8064 said:
Uncle Duke,

My RCBS CB manual says:
Unique/158 gr SWC = 6.5 start (1010 MV) to 7.0 (1089 MV).

Based on my years of fun with Unique it's bound to be a sooty load.

J8064,

Does your manual specify the mold or bullet number cited with this data?
Thanks!

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

byf43 said:
UD,

From the "All American Bullets" (all hardcast) loading manual that I have.

.357 magnum

158 grain hardcast lead

Unique

Start - 6.0 grains
Velocity - 1128 fps

Max - 7.5 grains
Velocity - 1304 fps
Max energy - 596 fpe

Byf43,

What year was your manual written?

Thanks!

gre24ene · Jul 13, 2015

If you decide to use something other than Unique, I could sure use some. :innocent0

byf43 · Jul 13, 2015

Uncle Duke said:
Byf43,

What year was your manual written?

Thanks!

April 1994.

The bullets used to be called "All American Bullets". They are now "NSK" bullets.
("Neil" at the local gunshows make these boolits. I've used the 200 gr SWC in my .45 Gold Cup NM for years and years.)

With that said, for comparison, I use nothing but 7.2 grains of Unique in .357 cases and Hornady 158 gr JHP in my mdl 19-4.

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

Thank you sir for the info! No, I've not slugged that gun. Never had need to do so since I've always used 2400 and hard cast 158 with good results. With the 18 as opposed to the 12, I'm thinking that bullet may be a bit too hard to obturate properly for what I'm guessing is a pretty significant drop in velocity with the 6 grain charge of Unique. Leading is trace only at the 6.0 grain loading. Close to being a non issue, but then again I purposely loaded and shot only 15 rounds through a squeaky clean bore.

Not that I do or would trust my memory with anything reloading related, but somewhere in the back of my mind, 6.5 grains of Unique was a standard load in .357 with a 158 grain cast years ago. Kinda like 2.8 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain HBWC in 38 Special as a long recognized standard. Some of the data I'm seeing, and that other folks here were kind enough to research and post, tells me I might be a couple of tenths light.

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

wgttgw said:
I read the OP again, and to directly answer the question, I routinely use 6 gr of unique with a the Lee 158 RF cast in air cooled WW. My 357 has never shot cast that great but the load has been typical of the performance of other cast loads in my Smith and no leading.

wgttgw said:
My guess is it is not the powder charge or that the bullet is too soft but the size or lube of the bullets. 18 BHN would be plenty if everything else is right. 11-12 BHN would have been what keith used in the 44 or 357 with a lot hotter charge

The quickest or easiest solution may be to tumble lube right over the commercial lube.

What size are the bullets and have you slugged the throats or barrel?

byf43 said:
April 1994.

The bullets used to be called "All American Bullets". They are now "NSK" bullets.
("Neil" at the local gunshows make these boolits. I've used the 200 gr SWC in my .45 Gold Cup NM for years and years.)

With that said, for comparison, I use nothing but 7.2 grains of Unique in .357 cases and Hornady 158 gr JHP in my mdl 19-4.

Were they out of Atlanta Ga. by chance? I've had some .41 on my bench for years if it's the same company!

Uncle Duke · Jul 13, 2015

gre24ene said:
If you decide to use something other than Unique, I could sure use some.

I'll keep that in mind.

We could use a thread sometimes on who's looking for what. Where are you located?

gre24ene · Jul 13, 2015

I live in Howard County and work in DC.

Thanks

I have some Bullseye or Titegroup if needed

j8064 · Jul 13, 2015

Uncle Duke said:
J8064,

Does your manual specify the mold or bullet number cited with this data?
Thanks!

Not really. But since it's an RCBS manual my bet is it's an RCBS mold design.

Actually, the boolit is very similar to the SWC's I cast from my Lee 158 gr/SWC mold. I use gas checks on my home cast CB's and push them a little harder than bare-base with both Unique and Bullseye. They make nice plinking ammo.

Uncle Duke · Jul 14, 2015

j8064 said:
Not really. But since it's an RCBS manual my bet is it's an RCBS mold design.

Actually, the boolit is very similar to the SWC's I cast from my Lee 158 gr/SWC mold. I use gas checks on my home cast CB's and push them a little harder than bare-base with both Unique and Bullseye. They make nice plinking ammo.

You're money! Thanks j8064, and all of you guys!

byf43 · Jul 14, 2015

Uncle Duke said:
Were they out of Atlanta Ga. by chance? I've had some .41 on my bench for years if it's the same company!

I don't think so.

I know that a couple of us from the Sportsman's Club would go over to Alexandria, on Rte. 1, to pick up several thousand boolits at a time.

We'd get volume discounts when we bought 10,000 at a time.

(The days are long gone for the $23.00/1,000 .45 acp 200 gr SWC!)

byf43 · Jul 14, 2015

Uncle Duke said:
We could use a thread sometimes on who's looking for what. Where are you located?

After I did an inventory, I was going to make/start a thread on powders.

I'm helping a friend dispose of some powders and reloading stuff (boolits, etc.) for another friend's widow.

I looked last night, to see if any 2400 was in the box. There wasn't. Sorry.

Off the top of my head, I saw a partial can of 800X and a couple of others.

I did see an older can (unopened) of H4895, and some IMR 3031, Reloader 7 and a few others.

I'll get a list together and post it in the Reloading Section, as soon as I can.

Uncle Duke · Jul 14, 2015

byf43 said:
After I did an inventory, I was going to make/start a thread on powders.

I'm helping a friend dispose of some powders and reloading stuff (boolits, etc.) for another friend's widow.

I looked last night, to see if any 2400 was in the box. There wasn't. Sorry.

Off the top of my head, I saw a partial can of 800X and some IMR stuff.
3031; 4759; and a couple of others.

I did see an older can (unopened) of H4895 and a few others.

I'll get a list together and post it in the Reloading Section, as soon as I can.

Thanks for checking! Pistol powder as I know you're aware has been spotty at best for the last few years now. Not just here in the People's Republic....out of state as well. Funny though.....for the longest time, 2400 was one powder I'd see often. Here lately though, I see it not at all. :banghead:

Maybe Alliant is doing batch runs of that powder as they try to catch up to demand on their other more commonly used and wider application powders? That would be my guess. :shrug:

byf43 · Jul 14, 2015

Uncle Duke said:
Thanks for checking! Pistol powder as I know you're aware has been spotty at best for the last few years now. Not just here in the People's Republic....out of state as well. Funny though.....for the longest time, 2400 was one powder I'd see often. Here lately though, I see it not at all. Maybe Alliant is doing batch runs of that powder as they try to catch up to demand on their other more commonly used and wider application powders? That would be my guess.

I'm not sure of what Alliant is doing, nowadays!

I do know that I picked up an un-opened pound of 2400 from that 'stash', and a pound of 231.

As soon as I can get a list together, the powder is going to be sold for a VERY good price.
(This lady needs the $$$ and she has no idea as to what the stuff is.)

My friend has gotten boolits, primers, powder, two old presses and some brass that he's selling off, for the widow.

I got one heck of a deal on a sealed (unopened) box of .44 magnum primed brass and some virgin .45-70 brass!

158 grain HARD CAST over Unique

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