Concealed Carry in Philly

gamer_jim · Aug 10, 2011

I'll be visiting Philly soon. I have a valid UT CCW.

February of 2011 Philly Council passed a bill to permit only PA LTCF's to be valid.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=6195

http://legislation.phila.gov/attachments/10674.pdf

This flies in the face of State preemption laws:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

I haven't found anything yet that says this law has been challenged in court or made un-law. Can someone with more Google-Fu than I find it?

Given some of Philly Police's unkind welcome to legal carriers (mostly OC'ing) in the past, should I carry anyway? If something happens and I am arrested for violating this law I know I am right but will probably end up arrested, loosing my firearm and thousands in legal fees.

I'm tempted to say the safety of my family is more important than potential legal hardship. In fact it is. Just sucks I would have to choose.

Any input?

Also, I need the name and number of an attorney licensed in PA in case something happens. Please PM me with contact info.

backnblack · Aug 10, 2011

I posted this over on PAFOA for ya....

http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-10/144412-utah-permit-good-philly.html#post1687529

he statute is probably not legal but YMMV....Concealed means Concealed.

gamer_jim · Aug 10, 2011

Nice, so looks like I have to either follow an illegal law or be safe...

Here is the link to Phillys Code:

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Pennsylvania/philadelphia_pa/title10regulationofindividualconductanda/chapter10-800safety?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:philadelphia_pa$anc=JD_10-818

ivwarrior · Aug 12, 2011

Killadelphia just loves to try and ignore state laws they don't like. This law is absolutely in violation of preemption. The thing is, until someone us arrested, charged and tried, nobody has "standing" to challenge it in court, so it remains on the books. At least, that's my "not a lawyer, didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express" understanding of it.

balttigger · Aug 12, 2011

Just another reason why I avoid Filthadelphia at all costs.

PCO31 · Aug 14, 2011

I will be spending this week in PA, trying out my recent Utah CCW. I dont venture into Philly often. Will be on the west side, near Pissburgh and north. Excited about being able to carry, but kinda nervous also. Some LEOs are not familiar with various CCW senarios....out of state permits and such. Its a shame that we are so paranoid about trying to exersize our rights to protect ourselves, our famlies and the innocents in the community.

gamer_jim · Aug 15, 2011

Our visit went well. We met her brother who was there for a conference. Ate at La Viola, excellent Italian food. Afterwards walked 6 blocks to get gelato.

I kept it well concealed the whole time, brother in-law never knew. Except for coffee I didn't drink that night. There was a strong police presence once we got near Walnut St with 2-4 officers at every intersection. As we approached the first corner cops were already eyeing me preparing for the take-down. Queue the low flying helicopter, they all look up at it and we quickly walk by. My wife between me and the officers. We cross the street and our path didn't come that close to officers for the rest of the night. I'm sure I was well concealed but just nervous. I wonder if they were trained to pick up on that.

Another thing, the officers were alert and eyeing everyone. We had to duck into the bank to get cash for parking and when I came out the officer across the street was staring at me. Immediately I thought he saw my firearm as I reached for me wallet to get my bank card out. I doubt he saw but that's the thought running through my head. I had a black button up shirt untucked and my holster sits low so I doubt they could see printing at night from across the street.

There were definitely some folks out that night who looked out of place. Alertness was the key and I wonder if that is what the cops picked up on, me being alert. Brother in-law said he felt safe and that Philly had nothing after he was in Fallujah in '04.

Back to my original question, it was a calculated risk for me. I knew I wasn't violating state law and if Philly did have a law not recognizing my right then ultimately I was legal. I knew things could have gotten messy but me and my wife's safety were more important. I would not have chosen to ccw if I did not know it was legal by the state.

PCO31 · Aug 16, 2011

So far so good. Travelled 83N to 76W....even helped PSP at an accident, CCW whole time. They never noticed, but I was ready for any questions. Spent today in P-burg, no prob. Several more days north, before return to the Not-So-Free State. Only issue is my strong side holster not comfy sitting in the car. Ended up sticking it in my belt, crossdraw....much better. May get a Kangaroo Carry holster for long road trips.

Lono · Nov 23, 2011

ivwarrior said:
Killadelphia just loves to try and ignore state laws they don't like. This law is absolutely in violation of preemption. The thing is, until someone us arrested, charged and tried, nobody has "standing" to challenge it in court, so it remains on the books.

That is SOP for the socialist piss hole that is Fithadelphia. I only go there on protest which is maybe less than once every 10 years.

gamer_jim said:
. . . Back to my original question, it was a calculated risk for me. I knew I wasn't violating state law and if Philly did have a law not recognizing my right then ultimately I was legal. I knew things could have gotten messy but me and my wife's safety were more important. I would not have chosen to ccw if I did not know it was legal by the state.

Last time I was in Phila, years ago, was when my wife & I took a friend down for jury duty at the Federal Courthouse. While she was doing that we did the tour of downtown. I walked up to a cop and said I have a question, then said I had heard Phila doesn't recognize PA CC laws and that I have a CC license, but wasn't carrying right now. He said he didn't really know what the city law was , , , but if it was him he'd be carrying his handgun.

Minuteman · Nov 23, 2011

Thanks for the details, interesting story.

deesly1 · Nov 24, 2011

PA Like Virginia is a Commonwealth. Philadelphia is not a special class city. If you go to any county in PA and get a permit it is legal in Philadelphia. I have been stopped in Philadelphia and knew the law the Police tried to BS me and I cited law. He let me go. Do not be fooled. PA is a Commonwealth if it is Law on one side of the state it is law EVERYWHERE!

John from MD · Dec 6, 2011

My family is in Northeast Philly and Bucks County. I never go there without my pistol and they don't live in the worst areas. I don't want to be a victim anywhere I go, so when I can, I carry. Too bad this low life communist state of Maryland won't trust us to carry. If we weren't in our sixties and didn't have health issues, I'd move the hell out.

BTW, I carry a copy of the reciprocity document between Pennsylvania and Florida.

Regards,

John

MDFF2008 · Jan 2, 2012

deesly1 said:
PA Like Virginia is a Commonwealth. Philadelphia is not a special class city. If you go to any county in PA and get a permit it is legal in Philadelphia. I have been stopped in Philadelphia and knew the law the Police tried to BS me and I cited law. He let me go. Do not be fooled. PA is a Commonwealth if it is Law on one side of the state it is law EVERYWHERE!

Actually Philadelphia is a special city in that it is the only city of the 1st class in Pennsylvania and does require a license to Open Carry or Concealed Carry.

PA permits are valid state wide yes; and Philly's law is illegal, but if you get stopped, YMMV.

bluedog46 · Jan 2, 2012

I have a florida permit and really hope I dont come into any issues. Philly is one place I dont want to be without a gun.

Buck · Jan 2, 2012

Pentucky overall is pretty darn solid. Just a few soft spots....

Streetgang · Mar 6, 2012

Sheez, I've got to go to NE Philly for a funeral on Thursday. Now for the personal debate. Do I break an unconstitutioinal law or not. The only good (and bad) thing is that Phlly PD will be all over the funeral, so it will be relatively safe there. My aunt who passed was married to a Philly homicide detective. Thing is we won't only be at the funeral.
I hate stupid laws. :sad20:

alucard0822 · Mar 6, 2012

Streetgang said:
Sheez, I've got to go to NE Philly for a funeral on Thursday. Now for the personal debate. Do I break an unconstitutioinal law or not. The only good (and bad) thing is that Phlly PD will be all over the funeral, so it will be relatively safe there. My aunt who passed was married to a Philly homicide detective. Thing is we won't only be at the funeral.
I hate stupid laws.

you don't have a VA/FL permit?

Streetgang · Mar 6, 2012

alucard0822 said:
you don't have a VA/FL permit?

No Utah... I know it's good in PA but Philly is a strange beast.

mrjam2jab · Mar 6, 2012

Streetgang said:
No Utah... I know it's good in PA but Philly is a strange beast.

Yes, Philly's law is illegal....but you are legal...even by their illegal law.

From the link in Post #3

only the following states are deemed to have firearms laws similar to those of Pennsylvania: Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota and Utah.

iobidder · Mar 7, 2012

So what about Florida? Same as Utah?

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