Boyscout back pack

sundazes said:

I would talk to the scoutmaster also. We went down this road last year when my son bridged. Our pack has loaners so before we buy anything he will be using them. Our troop is very active has camping trips once a month no matter the weather. One thing other than a pack I would suggest no skimping on is a GOOD pair of boots. Both will make a huge difference in the quality of the trip.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Good boots and good socks are probably the most important equipment for enjoying a backpacking trip.

Check with your troop before buying anything, there is probably no need to have a true backpacking pack yet.

If he's worried about not looking the part, I'd have him go camping once and see what everyone else has. Depending on how your troop handles bunking and what tents they have, your son may find that he wants the smallest bag possible that still holds what he needs for a weekend. I know in our troop, they sometimes end up with 3 boys per tent and there isn't much extra room for those 3 scouts to also bring 3 large backpacks. For this reason, my son used my old backpack exactly one time and has no interest in using it anymore unless he needs the capacity (ie. cold weather camping).

We're just finishing the first year of scouts and he hasn't needed anything more than a book bag/daypack. If they do any hiking, they've always started and stopped at the same point so there is no reason to carry anything except the basics (water, rain gear/layers, snacks, etc). After watching my son and the other new scouts, I doubt more than a couple of them would be capable of carrying their share of a weekend's worth of supplies and equipment on their backs for any length of time.

A lot of the more strenuous activities tend to be restricted by rank and/or age and probably won't be available to your son for a couple of years. The High Adventure things like Philmont (a week of backpacking) are definitely going to be off limits to him at this point.

Thanks for all the info! He has his first meeting tomorrow so ill be sure to ask all the questions then. I do know that his first two yrs will be basiclly car camping. Only needing to pack from the car to camp site which wouldn't be much more then a mile. And then back out at the end of the weekend. With that I guess it really doesn't matter as Long as he can get all his items in the pack. Tent, sleeping bag, bed roll, clothes, ect.

Eventually For Philmont, Osprey packs

So, the question begs, at 11 years old, is going to be going on full on hiking/camping trips, or just a short walk from the car to the tent/camp site? Like others have said, ask the scout master. I know many are speaking ill of Alice, but if you give her a make over, she is waaaaay more comfortable.

Here is a link to what I'm talking about.....
http://tonystactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3

Alice is an inexpensive option to put together and will serve well if it is more of a glorified carry bag for him. If you find that he needs a "real" pack, go to REI, you can find exactly what you need. Kelty is another good brand for an inexpensive (relatively) starting point.

Overall I agree that internal frame backpacks are better in the end than external frames. I have hiked portions of the Rockies and Appalachians, but mostly Catskills and Adirondaks, and cannot recall anyone further in having an external frame. I have always felt that an internal frame is more comfortable for myself.

An important thing to keep in mind is that hiking packweight should stay between 1/4 and 1/3 of bodyweight. Less than 1/4 means you could have carried more comforts (thicker groundpad, more trailmix) or something like a better first aid kit. Going beyond 1/3 means the hike becomes more tiring, and the entire point of hiking is to have a good time. If a hiker finds he is overloaded with weight after hiking in a fair bit, he is going to either suffer, need to abandon gear, or burden his buddies.

A bigger pack weighs more, and you do not want to be paying for extra weight that will not be used. I have an internal frame just big enough for winter backpacking with its bulkier sleeping bag/tent/fleece clothing. In summer I do not need as much space, but can just cinch the pack down smaller. The internal frame would still be too large for simple dayhikes, so I have a separate daypack for quick outings. So, as mentioned by others earlier, talk with the scout troop to find out what sort of activities your son will be seeing, and get a pack large enough for those activities and the growth your son will undergo for how long you plan to use the backpack. A pack just big enough for an 11yo is going to get a bit small within a few years, so room for adjustment or growth should be a consideration.

I have used a Kelty and Lowe Alpine thus far. Both were comfortable and have not needed me to do any repairs. I have been liking the gear at REI of late.

Be sure to check out the troops camping rules.

In my son's troop they did not allow the boys to store external framed packs in the tents. It was found that they did too much damage to the tents.

My son's troop camped once a month. Pretty much any pack works for weekend camping. If he just bridged you have a few years before you have to worry about Philmont or some other high adventure. For summer camp you will be using something bigger than a backpack but will want a small day pack for taking paperwork from MB session to MB session.

And by all means consider becoming an Assisant Scout Master.....it's something you will not regret........

As a former Scout Master myself, I can vouch for the importance of asking questions before spending money. I highly suggest going to the Troop's Committee meetings as well as the regular Troop meetings. The Committee meetings are where you will get all the good scoop plus have some input on the rules.

As far as the backpack goes, get what you can afford with a focus on comfort rather than capacity. The backpack and sleeping bag are not the place to become a bargain hunter. I have seen countless boys come and go through the Scouting program. There is a fairly simple litmus test for the boys that stay in the program; they think it is fun. Boys with sore backs and restless nights, do not think they are having fun.

And a big +1 for LoneRanger's suggestion. Please consider assisting the Troop. The general feeling of helping so many boys is indeed rewarding. But honestly, spending all those days and nights in the wilderness with my sons rewards me with memories that will keep me smiling forever.

natsb said:

As a former Scout Master myself, I can vouch for the importance of asking questions before spending money. I highly suggest going to the Troop's Committee meetings as well as the regular Troop meetings. The Committee meetings are where you will get all the good scoop plus have some input on the rules.

As far as the backpack goes, get what you can afford with a focus on comfort rather than capacity. The backpack and sleeping bag are not the place to become a bargain hunter. I have seen countless boys come and go through the Scouting program. There is a fairly simple litmus test for the boys that stay in the program; they think it is fun. Boys with sore backs and restless nights, do not think they are having fun.

And a big +1 for LoneRanger's suggestion. Please consider assisting the Troop. The general feeling of helping so many boys is indeed rewarding. But honestly, spending all those days and nights in the wilderness with my sons rewards me with memories that will keep me smiling forever.

Click to expand...

+1 on the sleeping bag....something I wanted to mention but forgot...that will be the most important piece of gear he takes on camping trips.

I don't know how many times we had boys show up with the SpongeBob Square Pants inside bag rated for 70º when we were camping in 30º weather. Our troop always carried a couple extra bags with us just for those occasions.

Eagle scout and scout master - Philmont went with internal frame and it was a lot better than external. Started out with cheap external for first year before my folks invested in a better pack.

I still have an old patched GI mountain bag that works all 4 seasons if you have a poncho liner. Think it was 20 bucks 30 years ago. Cant beat it.

More importantly - Learn to pack the pack! wieght distribution and how to pack things with edges is important. Nothing worse than a spare pair of shoes digging in your back. Dont trust waterproofing if the pack says it is. I pack in garbage bags - 1 days clothes per bag. That way if pack leaks - stuff dry, if one bag rips you still have another set of dry clothes. May times my pack ended up in a river or pond. When packing lay the stuff you need out - then put half away! 2 pairs of pants is all you need for a week! IF back packing same can be said about underwear - 2.

Showing my age. I was a Life Scout, and did Philmont in 1969. I was there the week we first walked on the moon and only heard it was a success after the fact.

Back in the day, there were no good retail camping stores, and so many brand and model options. I did Philmont with an official Scout external frame pack. So the Boy Scouts even do their own branded equipment anymore?

Look into a pack with a hip belt attached. Helps keep weight off the shoulders and on the hips. I remember adding one to my pack prior to going to Philmont in 78. Belt made hiking much easier.

In my son's troop, we typically do 1 "backpacking" campout a year. Usually on the AT, the trip usually has 2 components. A longer hike for the older guys, maybe 8 to 12 miles depending on terrain chosen. And a short hike 3-5 miles for younger scouts.

That being said, I'd suggest a general purpose inexpensive pack for your average "drive to a campground and hike into your sight maybe a few hundred yards to 1/2 a mile. Just for carrying his personal gear.

For the once a year hiking trip, REI offers rentals at pretty reasonable prices.

Your big expendatures at this point should be for good boots, socks and sleeping bag. I can't Emphasize enough the importance of a good, lightweight, warm sleeping bag.

When shopping for a bag remember that the rated temp is a "Survival" temp and not a comfort temp. If he's going to be camping at possible 30-40 deg overnight temps, which covers this area for March to oct, you want at least a 20deg bag.

Like everyone said, wait and see.

Here is reality, if your son is 10-12 and on the smallish side he should probably not be doing BACKPACKING. Day hikes yes (carrying a light day pack with only the 10 essentials), camping yes, backpacking, NO. Why?

Like my son's troop, most of the boys who just transitioned over weigh far less than 100 lbs. Some are just barely 50 lbs. These same kids who just were Cub Scouts a month ago have the same problem every kid does, their parents bought them crap gear. They have 10 lbs or more Wal-mart special heavy cotton sleeping bags, smuggle pillows, wear cotton sweatshirts and cotton socks to keep warm, bring knives that are too large for their small hands, have full metal "mess kits" when just a bowl and a spoon would work, and almost always find some way to put 15 lbs of gummy bears or other diabetes pills in there. Their "gear" is not gear, so much as stuff that can be used to make do while car camping. It weighs in around 30lbs; sometimes more, when you add in their water, food and shelter. Then it rains and it weighs even more all the while his 99 cent saran-wrap emergency poncho is being shredded just by looking at it. Your poor 50lbs scout now weighs in over 100lbs or close to it and his body is getting wrecked. Avoid your son backpacking until he gains some size/strength and experience.

For weekend camp-outs and even week-long summer camp where he is not carrying his gear for miles of trail a military duffel bag/sea bag or flight crew bag is an excellent option. All of that heavy pseudo gear he has will fit in it and make it easier for the adults to pack it in their vehicles without worrying if little Johnny’s mess kit just fell off of his pack on the drive. It is also easier for your young scout to pack since it is just one large space instead of trying to figure out which pocket to hide his red vines and lollipops in.

When you do look at backpacking packs frame packs are the way to go for a growing boy. They are often more adjustable for height and offer much more ventilation to keep him comfortable while hiking. Internal frame/no frame packs are all the rage now but were meant to hold the weight tight up against the climber/hiker’s body while they climb and twist their way to adventure. Hiking a trail when you are a kid is not nearly as strenuous as an internal frame pack is designed form. The Jansport Scout model pack is a frame pack with pretty decent adjust-ability and would serve smaller scouts well who are engaged in actual backpacking, but again; smaller kids should avoid it until they have size and experience under their belts. Your 30lbs of gear doesn’t wear less just because you are smaller; it is just a higher and more painful proportion of your own weight.

One last tidbit; after 21 years in the Corps and having been and infantryman/infantry instructor, most surplus gear is built for a grown male around 180lbs between 5’9” and 6’ tall. It doesn’t usually fit folks outside that range well and gets very uncomfortable very quickly. It is also usually designed to carry upwards of 100lbs in weapons, ammunition, rations, and water and is sized for it. Give it to your son and he will fill all of that space.

http://www.backpacker.com/may2012-gear-reviews-ultralight-packs/gear/16644

Good fit is very important.

Proper fitting COMFORTABLE pack will do wonders to keep your boy happy. If he's happy he'll enjoy the activity and want to continue.

Internal frame pack is the only way to go. Backpack technology has created a very comfortable, adjustable internal frame pack selection. The market develops internal frames, not external. Just get the right size for him. Go to REI/EMS and get fit or try on a few packs and let him pick it out. Buy used if you can to save a few bucks.

Do not use surplus military stuff for your son's first experiences. Trying it out at a later time might be ok, but if you want to help him get hooked on Scouts and stick with camping/hiking/backpacking, then enable him to be comfortable and enjoy the activity. It will go a long way in building his connection to being outside.

Uncomfortable pack + cold sleeping bag + crappy leaking tent... generally = quitting Scouts early.

Seen a lot of good Scouts leave a troop because they hated suffering on campouts.

(Eagle Scout, Asst SM, BSA Camp staff)

Go to REI. I took my internal frame kelty to Philmont and beyond, and with the right gear, space isn't an issue.