shotgun only area expansion?

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  • GSuders

    Active Member
    Dec 13, 2017
    148
    Keymar
    I'm fairly new to Maryland and its hunting laws, only been a residence for the past 7 years. Seems almost half of the state is limited to shotgun for deer hunting. Is this mainly due to heavy populated areas? I live in Keymar, just north of Frederick which has portion that is shotgun only. I'm mainly curious if you think the shotgun only areas will expand in the future?
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    I doubt it will be expanded. It actually reduced a year or 2 ago with Caroline County now being a rifle county.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,063
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Shotgun areas are likely to expand as urban centers and suburban areas grow.

    DNR is thinking about allowing straight walled rifle cartridges in shotgun areas. Anyone selling a 45/70 cheap?
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,063
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I have, but not sure how many people even have rifles that shoot those old school rounds. So again, they may decide to not do it as they are looking for more impact on the herd and 5 guys with 1873 trapdoors aren't going to make a huge dent.
     

    remrug

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 13, 2009
    1,761
    manchester md
    I talked to a DNR officer back in the 90s.I asked him if Carroll Co would be going to shotgun in that time frame's future.He told me that 10 landowners had to get together and propose such a change. A group did try to get it changed over to shotgun. The Judge asked how many shooting accidents happened during the past deer seasons and the answer was zero....case dismissed.

    That was years ago and Carroll was the only county that was asked about tho
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I have, but not sure how many people even have rifles that shoot those old school rounds. So again, they may decide to not do it as they are looking for more impact on the herd and 5 guys with 1873 trapdoors aren't going to make a huge dent.

    Old school rounds? huh? They just came out with some new rounds like 350 Legend just for this "straight walled" rule. If I am not mistaken, a lever/pump action 357 or 44 mag satisfies the "straight walled" rule plus minimum muzzle energy of 1200 ft-lbs from a rifle, and those guns fly off the shelf.

    People will jump on this if they change the rule. I will jump on this if they change the rule. But again, there is no evidence that this is anything more than an internet forum rumor.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Fox hunting was only subject to a change in Caroline around about 96 if I remember correctly.
    Private land owners were always concerned about game taking on their lands when they weren’t present hence the thought as I understood it was limiting range by regulating the weapon.
    Those old boys never cared for what they used when they went so it didn’t matter to them what others had to do.
    For those that were more interested in leasing ground to others they were losing out the rifle counties because they were more attractive to the hunters.
    Nobody chase foxes on horseback any longer and theirs more poultry houses to control for predation. When I lived in Caroline they were crawling all over the place. Still are I bet.
     

    biermkr

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2007
    1,651
    Almost Heaven
    Fox hunting was only subject to a change in Caroline around about 96 if I remember correctly.
    Private land owners were always concerned about game taking on their lands when they weren’t present hence the thought as I understood it was limiting range by regulating the weapon.
    Those old boys never cared for what they used when they went so it didn’t matter to them what others had to do.
    For those that were more interested in leasing ground to others they were losing out the rifle counties because they were more attractive to the hunters.
    Nobody chase foxes on horseback any longer and theirs more poultry houses to control for predation. When I lived in Caroline they were crawling all over the place. Still are I bet.

    They still fox hunt in the Monocacy Wildlife Management Area. They have ruined my deer hunts three separate times.
     

    GSuders

    Active Member
    Dec 13, 2017
    148
    Keymar
    Old school rounds? huh? They just came out with some new rounds like 350 Legend just for this "straight walled" rule. If I am not mistaken, a lever/pump action 357 or 44 mag satisfies the "straight walled" rule plus minimum muzzle energy of 1200 ft-lbs from a rifle, and those guns fly off the shelf.

    People will jump on this if they change the rule. I will jump on this if they change the rule. But again, there is no evidence that this is anything more than an internet forum rumor.

    That was my next thought. If they do expand the "shotgun" only areas will they allow "straight wall' as that will decide on which gun I will buy. I'd like to buy before they change the rule because once they change it will be hard to find a gun and that will drive the prices up.
     

    Mag Dump

    Active Member
    May 31, 2017
    246
    Frederick, MD Region
    Just got back from the SHOT show and there were many new offerings in straight wall cartridges. Its one of the hot new product trends. There will be no shortage of new options available should the need arise.
     

    engineerbrian

    JMB fan club
    Sep 3, 2010
    10,148
    Fredneck
    Just got back from the SHOT show and there were many new offerings in straight wall cartridges. Its one of the hot new product trends. There will be no shortage of new options available should the need arise.

    Damn, Sean and I were there too. I wish i would have known, we could have caught up. We havent seen you in a while
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    That was my next thought. If they do expand the "shotgun" only areas will they allow "straight wall' as that will decide on which gun I will buy. I'd like to buy before they change the rule because once they change it will be hard to find a gun and that will drive the prices up.

    I just need a barrel and maybe some magazines :D
     

    Pale Ryder

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,232
    Millersville
    That was my next thought. If they do expand the "shotgun" only areas will they allow "straight wall' as that will decide on which gun I will buy. I'd like to buy before they change the rule because once they change it will be hard to find a gun and that will drive the prices up.

    You could buy yourself a 45/70 while they are available and affordable. I would go straight walled also if I thought it was near time. 350 Legend looks promising. I don't think they will change it anytime soon though.
    Been thinking about a Savage 220, but talken myself out of it so far. For a Two week season, just doesn't make sense, since I have plenty of other options. One will be a crossbow, I think MY firearms season will be getting shorter, as I try not to hunt opening day of gun season because of fools who shot before legal.
    Several years ago I hiked to the top of Cunningham Falls, it was foggy and off and on rain. Literally could not see your hand infront of you, and some bunch of Yahoo's let loose with a dozen shots or so.
    As soon as it was light I left that area of the mountain. Won't go on opening day, at least not public land. Weekdays are my hunting days now.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    I'll try to not be long winded .

    The rifle/ shotgun only divisions date back to the dawn of the modern era of deer populations . They have been fairly stable ever since , the exact dividing lines in Fredrick Co having been tweaked a couple of times over the years .

    The dynamics are : Non Hunters ( irrationally ) freak out about the idea of expanding rifle zones , and are very vocal in their opposition .

    Meanwhile , since the '70s , the rate of " hunting accidents " has dropped so low overall , there is no statistical basis to further restrict rifle zones .

    As certain areas of Mo Co , Ho Co , etc urbanize , it tends to be addressed by county level restrictions on discharging firearms generally .

    So there is substantial inertia for things to remain substantially the same for indefinite future, unless DNR decides to kick over the hornet's nest on their own initiative . If DNR has such thoughts , they are keeping them well hidden .
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,063
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Well, I got a e-mail for a "public" meeting on the the wildlife management for the next two years. Feb 11th at 7PM at South Hagerstown High.

    This was not public the first time I saw it.

    Wildlife and Heritage Service
    Draft Management Concepts
    2019/2020 thru 2020/2021

    Coyote
    Proposed Action: Allow coyote hunting year-round statewide during day and night.

    Rationale/Goal: This has been a common request from hunters and landowners over the
    last several years. Predator hunting is increasing in popularity.

    Comments: Coyotes are currently hunted year-round during daylight hours and at night
    between October 15 and March 15.

    Waterfowl
    Proposed Action: Allow veterans of the United States Armed Forces (as defined in
    section 101, title 38, United States Code), and members of the Armed Forces on active
    duty, including members of the National Guard and Reserves on active duty (other than
    for training), to participate in a 2-day special waterfowl hunt. We propose to hold these
    days concurrent with the 2 traditionally scheduled youth hunting days.
    Rationale/Goal: To provide additional hunting opportunity to the military segment of the
    hunting population at times of year where waterfowl hunting pressure is low. This
    additional hunting opportunity may assist with various hunter recruitment and retention
    goals while providing military personnel extra time to hunt with their children, families
    and friends.

    Comments: While the two military special waterfowl hunt days are not required to be
    held concurrently with existing youth hunt days, long waterfowl seasons and scheduling
    conflicts with other popular hunting seasons (deer, bear, turkey) limit the number of other
    choices. Furthermore scheduling military/veteran days with youth days allows families
    to hunt together. This additional hunting opportunity was created by the Natural
    Resources Management Act (S.47), signed into federal law on March, 2019. Three other
    Atlantic Flyway states (Virginia, New Jersey, North Carolina) have scheduled
    Military/veteran days for the current hunting season and all three ran them concurrent
    with the existing youth waterfowl hunt days. Most other AF states are planning to
    incorporate these days for the 2020-21 season and plan to schedule them concurrent with
    existing youth days. It is unknown how many hunters will take advantage of this
    additional opportunity and what impact these 2 additional days will have on harvest.

    Air Gun – Definition
    Proposed Action: Clarify when air guns using shot may be used to hunt game species.

    Rationale/Goal: Several years ago the Department adopted regulations to define what an
    air gun is and to identify the species and conditions under which it is legal to hunt game
    species with an air gun. The current definition of an air gun does not include air guns that
    fire shot. There are several air guns that are now available that fire shot and can be used
    to take doves and other small game, however, the legality of using them to hunt is
    unclear. The purpose of this concept is to clarify regulations so that air guns firing shot
    would be legal for all game species where shotguns are now legal except for deer and
    black bear.

    White-tailed Deer
    Proposed Action: Create an urban/suburban deer management zone to increase potential
    harvest in areas with abundant deer populations. Included with this new zone will be an
    unlimited antlerless archery bag limit as an element of the new proposal.

    Rationale/Goal: Homeowners and others are urging the creation of this proposed new
    zone as an additional option for deer management in urban/suburban areas of the State.

    Comments: The proposed zone will include Anne Arundel, Baltimore, Howard,
    Montgomery and Prince George’s counties. In prior seasons, fewer than five hunters
    harvested more than the current archery bag limit of 15 antlerless. This change should
    not negatively impact the deer population within the newly created zone but will provide
    an increase in localized opportunity.

    White-tailed Deer
    Proposed Action: In Deer Management Region A, open the second Saturday of the twoweek deer firearm season to antlerless deer hunting on private and public lands.

    Rationale/Goal: Bad weather can impact hunter participation in Region A during firearm
    season. This is particularly problematic if it occurs during the limited antlerless deer
    hunting days. By adding another day of opportunity for antlerless harvest a week before
    the current antlerless day(s), it is less likely that weather will completely prevent hunters
    from hunting antlerless deer. An adequate antlerless harvest during firearm season is
    critical to effectively managing the Region A deer population. Likewise, venison is an
    important food staple for many hunters.

    Comments: As proposed, during the two-week firearm season, there would be a total of
    two days of antlerless hunting on public lands, and three days on private lands. The bag
    limit in Region A would remain the same with regard to this proposal. The Region A
    deer population is healthy and can sustain any added harvest that may result from this
    change.

    White-tailed Deer & Sika Deer
    Proposed Action: Create a primitive-weapon deer hunting season during the first three
    days of February. Legal hunting devices for this proposed new season will include: long
    bows, recurve bows, flintlock pistols and rifles, and percussion sidelock pistols and rifles.
    No telescopic or modern optics will be permitted on any hunting device.

    Rationale/Goal: Adding a unique and limited opportunity can help recruit, retain, and
    reactivate deer hunters. The season will be short and at a time that will minimize impacts
    to other user groups.

    Comments: The existing deer bag limit will apply for antlered white-tailed and sika deer
    statewide and antlerless deer in Region B. An antlerless whitetail will be added to the
    Region A antlerless bag limit specifically for this season. A similar four-day season exists
    in West Virginia. The West Virginia deer harvest during their primitive weapon season
    was 0.5% of the total statewide harvest (659 deer).

    White-tailed Deer & Sika Deer
    Proposed Action: Allow the use of straight-walled cartridges in centrefire rifles and
    handguns in firearms deer season statewide.
    Rationale/Goal: New deer hunting opportunities can help reduce overall deer populations
    while helping to recruit, retain, and reactivate deer hunters

    Comments: Other states added this new opportunity in recent years (Delaware, Ohio,
    Iowa, et al) with no known issues. Ballistics of straight-walled cartridges are comparable
    to modern shotgun ballistics.

    White-tailed Deer & Sika Deer
    Proposed Action: Remove the Region B six-day October antlerless-only muzzleloader
    split and offer additional opportunity during the firearms season. See next concept

    Rationale/Goal: This season is only marginally popular and continues to cause significant
    confusion for hunters who also want to hunt with archery equipment during the early
    muzzleloader antlerless-only week. The seasons are open concurrently, but hunters
    cannot carry a muzzleloader and archery equipment during any archery season. We are
    proposing to close this segment and offer additional opportunity through an expanded
    firearms season in region B. See next concept

    Comments: Between 1,500 – 3,000 antlerless white-tailed deer are typically harvested
    during the six-day split. This compares to nearly 5,000 taken during the three-day eithersex split the week prior. This change will apply to sika deer as well.

    White-tailed Deer & Sika Deer
    Proposed Action: In Region B only, change the five-day archery season between the twoweek firearm season and late muzzleloader season to additional firearm hunting days.

    Rationale/Goal: This change will restore the lost antlerless harvest opportunity created by
    the removal of the six-day October antlerless-only muzzleloader split proposed above and
    will provide additional opportunity during firearms season within Region B. Allowing
    firearms during this week vs. October will be more compatible with many constituents
    (hunting and non-hunting alike) since it falls during a time when other outdoor activities,
    including archery hunting, are winding down for many individuals.

    Comments: It is projected that 400 – 600 antlered deer and 2,000 – 3,000 antlerless deer
    may be harvested if these days are switched from archery to firearms. This change will
    apply to sika deer as well.
     

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