Howard County Fairgrounds July 14-15

Rack&Roll said:

Banning “walk-around” private gun sellers is a non-starter because there are many people (me included) willing to spend the time and money to attend a gun show because there’s a chance a private seller will ALSO have what I am looking for.

I agree that fewer gun shows might also please a significant number of vendors, who have told me they feel pressured to buy into the current schedule because they will lose traditional table placement by skipping shows occasionally.

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I understand the folks who like the "Walk Around" private guy, as a private attendant I like this as well. But look at it from the promoter and vendor point of view...They pony up the money to attract a large (hopefully) group of buyers,and a person with no skin in the game can undersell their personal firearm because they have no overhead.
Do you think your favorite gun shop would let you hang out at their shops with a rifle for sale slung over your shoulder, talking to all their customers ?
If people have something to sell, get a few things together maybe find a partner and rent a table. It adds to the show.

The tradition of walk-arounds is as old as gun shows.

The promoters know that it makes gun shows more attractive to paying customers—and the promoter collects entrance fee money from people who would likely NOT attend the show if they are in selling mode and not buying mode and cannot bring their offer firearm with them.

If you have one firearm to sell the price of a table, even discounted, takes away any real proceeds.

I say this as someone who is a gun show attendee, as someone who has been a walk-around, and as someone who has rented tables at gun shows when I had enough to sell to make it worth it.

Most vendors, if they are being honest and mature about it, understand that walk-aroundd increase overall attendance and interest, and are not unhappy with the arrangement.

You're probably right. But the old way of doing things can't survive in today's world and maybe it is just time for these shows to completely go away from Maryland. The bigger issue is that some FFL's rely on the shows to help their business and I don't think losing more LGS's is good for anyone. Anyway, continued prayers for your healing you are a real inspiration !

There are many problems with gun shows today. There are no surplus military arms to be bought cheap any more. Those days are long gone. The LE trade ins are not what they used to be. The dealer's of them used to only sell them to FFL's. Now they like most company's will sell to anyone for the same price to anyone. Clean used guns are hard to find and buy for resale. People bitch that FFL's don't pay blue book but yet most people will not pay blue book for a gun. Any of the nice gun collections anymore go to auction or the family sell them online. So all that is left are a few private seller's and local gun shops and they all selling just about the same type stuff. People are crying about prices of their guns, it is just like anything else you buy do your homework. Don't lump all the seller's at a show because of one ass hat. This is not just going on with Maryland show's all of the show's are turning this way. I have been going to show's for over 30 years and if you take the time to look I have never left without something. There were a lot of deals this weekend at the show if you looked hard. 1917 Eddystone sporter, a all matching trapdoor Springfield for 600 and on Sunday a nice shooter M1 carbine buy a private seller for 700. I will support the local shows when they leave Maryland they wont be back.

One dude walk around with a rifle for sale is not gonna hurt any vendors in my opinion. Any vendor has problem with that is just not being reasonable. That dude doesn't have the volume to influence anything at the show. Hell people here give out free karma, I don't see any IP jump out and saying "I am paying for an IP section so you can't come here and give out an AR15 grip for free". On the other hand, if this guy brought in like 20 mosin and setup in a corner without paying, then that's a problem.

One thing I don't understand is why some vendors have to gouge up price so they can "put food on the table" and complain that customers don't support local brick and mortar business, while other vendors, like a lot of IPs here, can offer product with fair price? Don't they have family and have to put food on the table too?

Don’t know if it’s do-able but why not take the old Lexmark route. Lower margin on certain guns while up charging on service. It might just be my laziness talking but if a dealer table had a guy willing to “detail and clean” my just bought rifle for an upcharge while I walked around, that’d be an easy way to get some more of my $$


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RepublicOfFranklin said:

Don’t know if it’s do-able but why not take the old Lexmark route. Lower margin on certain guns while up charging on service. It might just be my laziness talking but if a dealer table had a guy willing to “detail and clean” my just bought rifle for an upcharge while I walked around, that’d be an easy way to get some more of my $$


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We could lower the margin, but what if no one chooses the service? Also, it's kinda a liability thing. If something gets broken or damaged the "guy" is on the hook for it. Just a thought

FFBWMD said:

We could lower the margin, but what if no one chooses the service? Also, it's kinda a liability thing. If something gets broken or damaged the "guy" is on the hook for it. Just a thought

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Or when the show is busy and you dont have time to tear down and clean. so your going to hire another guy just to sit there and clean ? dont think so , thats called over head

jr88 said:

I understand the folks who like the "Walk Around" private guy, as a private attendant I like this as well. But look at it from the promoter and vendor point of view...They pony up the money to attract a large (hopefully) group of buyers,and a person with no skin in the game can undersell their personal firearm because they have no overhead.
Do you think your favorite gun shop would let you hang out at their shops with a rifle for sale slung over your shoulder, talking to all their customers ?
If people have something to sell, get a few things together maybe find a partner and rent a table. It adds to the show.

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I can remember when the tables cost less and there were some private sellers behind them with things they no longer wanted or needed. There was a huge attendance and deals were to be had, even from the licensed dealers. At some point, things changed and the private people behind the tables went away. The cost of tables went up and up. Laws changed. The faces behind the tables changed. The internet arrived. Lots of things are no longer the way they used to be. It is sad when good dealers are disheartened by poor attendance and such. I noticed good dealers like SCSG still seemed to do well at this show, even with such low attendance. They brought what people were interested in buying! Sadly, the promoter is not seeing the attendance levels he needs and that does not bode well for future shows. Frank has to pay for the facilities and all the people he has working there and still have enough to put some cash in his pocket or it simply is not worth his time. I would hope that Frank might try lowering the cost of the tables to encourage more dealers to participate. Remember, dealers still have to pay for their shop even when they are at the show. I know this weighs heavily on their mind when deciding to attend or just stay in their shop.

As a long time lurker this posting has convinced me to sign up.

Having been an attendee, worked for a promoter, having worked tables, both as a volunteer for organizations and as a vendor I’d like to offer some thought and observations.

As FFBWMD has pointed out the table fees to the vendors cover the cost of the venue and table rentals. If it was a perfect world the promoter can sell enough tables to cover the rental of the hall and the table rentals with a little extra. More on that later.

The entrance fee is what the promoter gets to pay the staff, law enforcement for security, advertising and everything else.

If there aren’t enough tables sold to cover rental expenses the shortfall comes out of the entrance fees or the promoters pocket.

Some promoters don’t care what people sell as long as they can sell a table. Chantilly has a lot of tables that most would not think of as firearms related. Silverado has made it a point to keep the non-firearms related stuff out, even if it means fewer tables. The other promoters in the area fall in between.

Frank with Silverado always has provided tables gratis for gun clubs, the state association, scouts, and such groups. While it is certainly a good business decision it is also a cost.

Some years ago, there were quite a few gun shops in the area. We could spend hours discussing and lamenting what has happened, however it won’t change it. Suffice to say Maryland is not a firearm friendly place. One of the results is the gun show has to a degree taken the place of the local gun shop. It is a place to see what is out there in person as apposed to looking at a computer screen.

Unfortunately, a large segment does not realize what it costs as a vendor to do a show. As J H Smith has pointed out it is quite costly and that is why some of the gun shops it the area no longer do the shows.

While some feel it necessary to trash a show because they couldn’t find what they wanted that doesn’t mean someone else didn’t find what they wanted. Everyone has their interests and if there is a table that has something that doesn’t interest you nothing prevents you from walking to the next table. I may be in the minority in that I don’t mind having a few, as in few tables, with jewelry and what not if it would bring more women to the shows.

Finally, if the gun show becomes a part of history we all loose and those that wish for firearms to go away will have prevailed.

From the viewpoint of going to a lot more shows as volunteer for MSI than I would have gone on my own , we've seen a phenomenon.

All the promotors must look at same calander . They come in clusters , sometimes back to back to back . People who go to one show , often are in the mood, or financial position to go right back the next weekend .

And the existing shows aren't evenly spread geographically. There is a huge vacuum in So Md, and a show there would also draw from the DC 'burbs . ( Hint to IP who knows who he is .)

GymRatz is getting to be it's own gun show for SoMD.

I think they should hire the "SUNDAY!! SUNDAY!!" drag race announcer to do their radio spots to grab attention.

FFBWMD said:

We could lower the margin, but what if no one chooses the service? Also, it's kinda a liability thing. If something gets broken or damaged the "guy" is on the hook for it. Just a thought

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Yeah you’re right; any sort of damage while “detailing” and the vendor would be liable. Just spitballing some random ideas. I would love an on-site gunsmith for these shows though, for cleaning and safety check work, but there’s probably some pain in the rear logistical issues there.

Thank you for responding btw!

Quick Edit: there’s a lot of LGS’s in my area that I never see at these shows; I’ll say it’s nice getting to see some of an LGS’s wares and meet their people at these shows rather than the awkward “pop-ins” to see if someone has gotten in anything new.


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As someone who has gigged with big equipment cases for a living, I am always cognizant of the effort the vendors go through to set up a gun store operation on the road that only lasts two-three days.

There is a lot of heaving lifting we never see. And you can imagine what its like to put in your show hours on Sunday, and then have hours more work to do securing and loading your gear while the rest of us have our feet up at home.

Hats off to these Warrior Capitalists!

Scrounger said:

As a long time lurker this posting has convinced me to sign up.

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Finally, if the gun show becomes a part of history we all loose and those that wish for firearms to go away will have prevailed.

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Scrounger, great first post. Welcome.

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IMO the whole 'show' thing is changing. In the past I have attended motorcycle shows, woodworking shows, gun shows ,etc and nowadays they all seem to be suffering from changing dynamics. I needed an old part for a motorcycle, at one time I would have haunted swap meets etc. looking for it, I found it on Ebay at a junkyard in England... shipped to me at my house for a decent price. I think there are a number of reasons why, ranging from social pressure to economic to technology and more. Things are changing/evolving, but I am not smart enough to know where they will end up.