damn, 223 case prep SUCKS

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  • davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    holy cow.

    tumble/clean it
    tap out cleaning media
    lube it
    size it, deprime
    tumble/clean it to remove lube, tap out cleaning media (or wipe off lube case by case)
    trim it
    chamfer inside and outside of mouth
    swage primer pockets
    primer pocket uniformer (not sure if i need to do this if swaging? have the swager on order).

    am i doing anything dumb or duplicative?
     

    dannyp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 30, 2018
    1,463
    i use a universial deprimer first so the primer pockets get cleaned when you tumble .
     

    bigmancrisler

    2A Preacher
    Jun 4, 2020
    1,263
    Martinsburg, WV
    holy cow.

    tumble/clean it
    tap out cleaning media
    lube it
    size it, deprime
    tumble/clean it to remove lube, tap out cleaning media (or wipe off lube case by case)
    trim it
    chamfer inside and outside of mouth
    swage primer pockets
    primer pocket uniformer (not sure if i need to do this if swaging? have the swager on order).

    am i doing anything dumb or duplicative?


    That’s how I do it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Triggerfinger

    States Rights!
    Sep 1, 2012
    1,365
    Richlands, North Carolina
    Welcome to reloading. Surely not very glamorous, but the benefits are worth it. Being able to shoot whatever and when ever is a nice. However there's a down side, your search for more and more reloading gear, primers, powder ect will never end....ever.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    You need to get a prep station. They aren't very fast but cut way down on time and handling just the same.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    If you're just trying to make M193/M855ish plinking rounds you can cut out some steps, most notably the chamfering step. Chances are your loads will still outshoot just about all factory M193/M855 type ammo.

    Cleaning primer pockets isn't really necessary.

    Best way to do it is to use a press mounted trimmer like Dillon sells. Use an expander after the sizing/trimming station as it'll help knock off any burrs left from trimming. With sharp trimmer blades, there aren't that many burrs. Then when you tumble to remove the lube, it'll also further knock down any burrs. You can also use a Lyman M die to add a very slight step-bell to the case mouth instead of chamfering by hand. This also works when loading flat based bullets.

    ETA: The beauty of the Dillon trimmer is that you don't need to check if it needs trimmed. It either gets trimmed, or doesn't because it doesn't need it.

    In my experience, it's best to ream to remove primer crimps. Swaging is a pain if you have mixed brass.

    Also, get a nice brass catcher so you retain your brass and it doesn't mix. No subsequent sorting, and you won't have to do primer pockets, or trim (depends).

    You can also trim shorter to the SAAMI min of 1.730". You shouldn't need to trim again for a while. 1.745" is for some reason a suggested trim length, but SAAMI minimum is actually 1.730"

    I did an experiment, and with most AR15s, 223 brass length doesn't actually grow. It's really only when you get to short gas lengths. I fired and loaded the same cases 12+ times and they never got over SAAMI max case length for both rifle and mid length gas systems. The carbines and shorter did grow the brass after several firings which makes sense as they're extracting while under more pressure.

    Get one of the case gauges that indicates SAAMI min/max headspace and only size to get inside SAAMI specs. Your brass may last longer this way. If you run most sizing dies down to the shell holder, you're bumping the shoulder back way way more than needed.

    ETA: The answer I came to before all this madness was to buy the Wolf Gold primed cases for $120 per 1k and not bother reloading.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    There are tools that make some of those steps faster.

    But that’s basically it. I don’t uniform the pockets and mine goes fine. If there are crimps, yes you need to swage the pocket.

    But yes, reloading rifle sorta sucks unless it is straight wall rifle.

    Thought depending on your load you won’t need to trim every time if you are trimming to minimum. I haven’t reloaded any 223 cases enough times yet, but I see a lot of guys saying every 3-4 firings if it isn’t loaded super hot and trimming to minimum length.

    Of factory cases I’ve reloaded about 100 so far, just working up loads. About 20 out of 100 needed trimming on the first firing. I’ve loaded about 50 for a second firing. About two dozen of those needed trimming.

    That’s where I need a power trimmer to speed it up.

    Pistol cases are fast. Tumble, resize and deprime on my Lee App. Expand on my lee App. Hand primer. Then seat or seat and crimp on my Lyman turret press. Lee FCP if I need to on the load as the final step on the Lyman.

    If I have things setup right I can probably do 300 pistol rounds in 3 hours or somewhat less not including tumbling time. Priming and charging/seat/crimp steps being the slowest part.

    Rifle of course adds a lot more time. Like twice the time.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    Also, buy a Dillon Progressive if you don't have one. Get the XL750 with a casefeeder.
     

    Scrounger

    Active Member
    Jul 16, 2018
    357
    Southern Maryland
    My old method was tumble clean, then sift in the Dillon sifter. That sifter handles the media in case problem well.

    Then it went to the press. I have dedicated tool heads for the 550 for brass prep. RCBS lube/ decap die in station one, station two empty. Station three has a Dillon size/trim die, station four empty. Then back into the cleaner to remove the lube, then sift. Then it was Dillon swage tool time. Brass is ready.

    The new method is clean in the mixer, then sift in batches with the Dillon sifter. Then process it with the CP2000. When all is said and done, the brass is decapped, 95% resized, full length resized and trimmed, the primer pocket swaged, and the neck uniformed, all on one machine. Then into the mixer to remove the lube. The brass is ready for use after sifting.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,405
    Odenton
    1. Universal deprimer
    2. Chuck into ultrasonic
    3. Rinse
    4. Toaster oven wife never uses at low heat for 15 minutes
    5. Lube and size on Lee Loadmaster
    6. Trim, chamfer, deburr, primer pocket reamer to remove crimp (all on Frankford Arsenal Case Prep Center.
    7. Chuck into Loadmaster for loading.
     

    Park ranger

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 6, 2015
    2,315
    There are people you can send your brass to and they do all this for you for a nickel or so per case.
     

    GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    holy cow.

    tumble/clean it
    tap out cleaning media
    lube it
    size it, deprime
    tumble/clean it to remove lube, tap out cleaning media (or wipe off lube case by case)
    trim it
    chamfer inside and outside of mouth
    swage primer pockets
    primer pocket uniformer (not sure if i need to do this if swaging? have the swager on order).

    am i doing anything dumb or duplicative?

    This is pretty much what I do for making precision rounds. I do also weight the cases and sort by head stamp to try and find like brass for batches. I also test run out after loading the rounds and of course do a chamber gauge test. I only use my Dillion 650 for the sizing and trimming, everything else is on a single stage.

    For blackout, I use a swage-it on my 650 during the trimming step and take off all the burrs with a quick stainless steel tumble (15 min). I do not ream, debur or any other steps so that takes a lot of the case by case hand steps out. I also have stopped doing the original cleaning step with pins as all I’m worried about is the outside of the case being clean. I see no reason that all of these short cuts couldnt be adopted for high volume 223 loading.

    I have not found that I can really save any money loading 223 and it’s much more time consuming than pistol rounds. Durning normal times I would recommend not wasting the time when factory rounds can be had for 2-3 cents more than the raw materials will cost. Life is a little different right now.
     

    HogCommander

    Active Member
    Aug 10, 2013
    411
    Texas Hill Country
    Check out the Giraud case trimmer. Not cheap but will save you a massive amount of time. Push the brass case into the trimmer like you would a pencil sharpener, when you hear/feel it quit cutting, twist the case about 1/4 turn and you're done. It uses a V shaped cutter that trims to length, chamfers and deburs simultaneously.

    For primer pockets I got a drill chuck that attaches to an electric motor (3/8" shaft I think). That allowed me to ream the crimp on military brass and run a uniforming tool if desired.
     

    Ponder_MD

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    4,554
    Maryland
    A buddy and I just reloaded 100 rounds of M2 ball today.
    Although my friend doesn't have the 4-position die station we made a pretty good assembly line. Setup took the most time. It was cool and educational.

    Novosobirsk Munitions Factory #9. ;)
     

    GunBum

    Active Member
    Feb 21, 2018
    751
    SW Missouri
    Check out the Giraud case trimmer.

    I second the Giraud. And if you don’t want to invest $500+ in the full Giraud trimmer, you can get a Giraud Tri-Way for .223 for $105. I can trim, chamfer, and deburr the cases fast enough to take the pain out of 5.56 brass trimming.

    Also, the good news is that primer pocket swaging is a one time thing. Once it’s done, it’s done,
     
    I deprime/size first then dry tumble then trim and swage primer pockets. But.. i chuck my little crow trimmer in my drill press to trimm.. about 1 second to trim then when that all done I take the trimmer out and replace it with the swage tool into the drill press. To do primer pockets. I do 1000 at a time and yes, it takes some time
     

    kstone803

    Official Meat Getter
    Feb 25, 2009
    3,923
    Ltown in the SMC
    Check out the Giraud case trimmer. Not cheap but will save you a massive amount of time. Push the brass case into the trimmer like you would a pencil sharpener, when you hear/feel it quit cutting, twist the case about 1/4 turn and you're done. It uses a V shaped cutter that trims to length, chamfers and deburs simultaneously.

    For primer pockets I got a drill chuck that attaches to an electric motor (3/8" shaft I think). That allowed me to ream the crimp on military brass and run a uniforming tool if desired.

    I second the Giraud. And if you don’t want to invest $500+ in the full Giraud trimmer, you can get a Giraud Tri-Way for .223 for $105. I can trim, chamfer, and deburr the cases fast enough to take the pain out of 5.56 brass trimming.

    Also, the good news is that primer pocket swaging is a one time thing. Once it’s done, it’s done,

    Third on the Giraud. I have a gracey with Giraud upgrades. My swaging is done with the Lock n Load swage tools.

    Other things I've learned over time. Small base dies by RCBS are a must for reloading for multiple ARs. Lanolin and rubbing alcohol in a cheap spray bottle are the best case lube, hands down no comparison. Do it in large batches one step at a time over a week or so. Rifle is not a 100 at a time process in my mind.

    And the last one is sometimes when you have 5 gal buckets of brass you've been staring at and putting off processing just pay someone. I've used these guys before with great results. https://msprocessedbrass.com/
     

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