I didn't see anything about the properties of the metal other than it can be used for the same stuff as Cerrosafe. Maybe you can do some comparisons.
Using CerroSafe
- Thread starter Melnic
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I didn't see anything about the properties of the metal other than it can be used for the same stuff as Cerrosafe. Maybe you can do some comparisons.
Archeryrob
Undecided on a great many things
It is cheaper direct, but its $8.99 for up to 5 pounds for shipping. How much of a pound do you use on a rifle? Wondering if its better to just buy two right out?
https://www.rotometals.com/roto158-190f-low-melt-fusible-bismuth-based-alloy-ingot/#product-reviews
The amazon review stated not to wait the 30 minutes to push it out, but I think he had trouble because he never oiled the chamber the first two casts.
https://www.rotometals.com/roto158-190f-low-melt-fusible-bismuth-based-alloy-ingot/#product-reviews
The amazon review stated not to wait the 30 minutes to push it out, but I think he had trouble because he never oiled the chamber the first two casts.
GunBum
Active Member
It doesn’t matter who makes/sells the alloy.
The important thing is the ingredients.
Bismuth 42.5%
Lead 37.7%
Tin 11.3%
Cadmium 8.5%
If it matches those percentages for the ingredients, then it is the same as Cerrosafe.
The important thing is the ingredients.
Bismuth 42.5%
Lead 37.7%
Tin 11.3%
Cadmium 8.5%
If it matches those percentages for the ingredients, then it is the same as Cerrosafe.
The 9mm chamber casts were .7oz, the 41 swiss I showed which is not the entire cartridge volume was 2.2oz I'm betting an entire 30-06 and throat is less than 5oz
You can re melt them.
Archeryrob
Undecided on a great many things
Thank you, Melnic.
Well,
Someone is not telling the metal content correctly or there is some other proprietary blend going on cause I have now done 4 casts with the Rotomolds alloy using the same method each time (heat gun method) and EACH time its really hard to punch out at the 30 minute mark.
This morning I then did 2 again with the Cerrosafe and at 30 minutes, it pops right out. One of the differences may be that the rotometals is not shrinking then expanding like the Cerrosafe.
I can see the Cerrosafe diameter past the case mouth come out of the barrel at .360" and slowly climb to .361" at the 1 hour after cast mark.
I may do the rotometals again one more time, maybe pulling it sooner than 30 minutes. Maybe 15 minutes and try some measurements.
Someone is not telling the metal content correctly or there is some other proprietary blend going on cause I have now done 4 casts with the Rotomolds alloy using the same method each time (heat gun method) and EACH time its really hard to punch out at the 30 minute mark.
This morning I then did 2 again with the Cerrosafe and at 30 minutes, it pops right out. One of the differences may be that the rotometals is not shrinking then expanding like the Cerrosafe.
I can see the Cerrosafe diameter past the case mouth come out of the barrel at .360" and slowly climb to .361" at the 1 hour after cast mark.
I may do the rotometals again one more time, maybe pulling it sooner than 30 minutes. Maybe 15 minutes and try some measurements.
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
Yeah that sucks I was waiting to hear that the product worked as intended.
Doesn't sound like it does unless you can figure out any additional methods.
I used to make sulfur casts which are difficult to do more that likely harmful to your health and extremely brittle to work with.
When I moved on to cerro-safe all that went away. Even though it was more expensive it works exactly as described nearly every time.
It is more expensive but, as Melnic has said, you can reuse it. I am using the same Cerrosafe that I bought probably 30 years ago or so. You just have to clean the dross from time to time with a Q tip and it works fine.
Another excellent use for Cerrosafe is to insure your molds are the size they are supposed to be. I have seen Lyman undersized molds that were not marked properly and sold as a standard size mold.
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
Thats a good trick, sometimes though you get what you pay for especially when it comes to working on guns.
Good tooling is expensive but so is your time.
When you absolutely have to prove something for what it is you don't need or want to be second guessing your results.
Tinkering or performing other methods is an enjoyable part of the hobby aspect though.
That compound may be better for making laps or for copying impressions to make cutters for a rifling tool or cutter or for something else.
I thought about either material for a lap but was worried that if I cast near the muzzle, then pull further into the barrel, it bore might neck down and get stuck.
The way to make a lap is to
1. get a sub bore bronze brush, say 22 for 30, 38 for 45. After the barrel is heated and you have stuffed your paper or patch plug, suspend the bore brush in the center of the bore with a small cotter key. At this point the full treads should be outside of the muzzle. Pour the cerrosafe and remove as normal. Then, before it expands, screw in onto a cleaning rod, lube lightly with oil and fit it back into the rifling. Run it up and down a couple of times and then start doing it with your lapping compound.
It is easier to use Cerrosafe rather than lead because of the difference in melting temps.
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
Usually lead is a better material for a lap but it's hard to work with, you may find more wear occurs at the breech end rather than at the muzzle.
All barrels have tight spots either from wear in tooling during manufacture or from not being straight.
Next time you have a take off or junk barrel and your looking for an interesting project, take a steel rod and cut some grooves in it to hold a cast. Then insert it into the barrel and pour lead around it.
If you cut a tiny strip of metal window screen you can almost get it to take up unnecessary space without the screen winding up at the exterior of the slug which will make it easier to withdraw.
Success with the Rotomolds.
I read several reviews on Amazon and they stress NOT waiting 30 minutes but to tap out immediately. Several posts mentioned this but one had more detail than the others.
I wanted to time it so I tried 3 times tapping out between 1 1/2 and 2 minutes after the alloy changes state.
You will see the metal initially gloss over, then set timer. Each time It popped out with finger pressure on the brass rod.
Here is the kicker though, the metal seems to expand at that point, so after say 20 minutes, the measurements on that 9mm diameter will increase .001"
Since I had cerrosafe to compare it to, I knew what the other cerrosafe casts came out to.
So, you need to take the measurements at about the 5 minute point.
At about the 10 minute point, it was .0005" larger
Funny thing is that I went back to the rotomold casts yesterday and they were STILL reading what cerrosafe showed at 1hr.
So, conclusion, is if you let it set up and cool inside the chamber, it will be a BEYATCH to tap out, but the measurements will settle to the chamber diameter.
I'm not liking that at all, I'd rather get the cast to tap out easily.
I read several reviews on Amazon and they stress NOT waiting 30 minutes but to tap out immediately. Several posts mentioned this but one had more detail than the others.
I wanted to time it so I tried 3 times tapping out between 1 1/2 and 2 minutes after the alloy changes state.
You will see the metal initially gloss over, then set timer. Each time It popped out with finger pressure on the brass rod.
Here is the kicker though, the metal seems to expand at that point, so after say 20 minutes, the measurements on that 9mm diameter will increase .001"
Since I had cerrosafe to compare it to, I knew what the other cerrosafe casts came out to.
So, you need to take the measurements at about the 5 minute point.
At about the 10 minute point, it was .0005" larger
Funny thing is that I went back to the rotomold casts yesterday and they were STILL reading what cerrosafe showed at 1hr.
So, conclusion, is if you let it set up and cool inside the chamber, it will be a BEYATCH to tap out, but the measurements will settle to the chamber diameter.
I'm not liking that at all, I'd rather get the cast to tap out easily.
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