If You Must Have the HBAR stamp ...

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  • ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    tenor.gif


    Look im not trying to spread misinformation but if I recall correctly it reads must be advertised as HBAR or stamped HBAR.

    How can you prove something was or was not advertised in some way. Take a screen shot of a website before you buy? Also where does it define who has the authority to determine what is or is not an HBAR and who has that authority to mark the barrel as such. Many companies simply put someone else’s product in a box with their name on it and just ship it out. Can they the distributor mark a barrel? If not why not?
     

    vgplayer

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    1,069
    King George, VA
    Who cares if they (or anyone) did stamp the barrels themselves. The way the law reads it simply states that it must be stamped HBAR.

    Please show us where exactly it says in the law it must be stamped HBAR.

    Look im not trying to spread misinformation but if I recall correctly it reads must be advertised as HBAR or stamped HBAR.

    How can you prove something was or was not advertised in some way. Take a screen shot of a website before you buy? Also where does it define who has the authority to determine what is or is not an HBAR and who has that authority to mark the barrel as such. Many companies simply put someone else’s product in a box with their name on it and just ship it out. Can they the distributor mark a barrel? If not why not?

    You are proving my point that is not defined in the law.
    The best standard we currently have is guidance from the MSP (AFAIK there isn't a document available to the public)
    1. The barrel is marked HBAR
    OR
    2. The Manufacturer markets/advertises it as heavy or HBAR

    My point is, must be stamped HBAR is not the standard.
     

    AlanInSilverSpring

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 25, 2017
    1,645
    Please show us where exactly it says in the law it must be stamped HBAR.



    You are proving my point that is not defined in the law.
    The best standard we currently have is guidance from the MSP (AFAIK there isn't a document available to the public)
    1. The barrel is marked HBAR
    OR
    2. The Manufacturer markets/advertises it as heavy or HBAR

    My point is, must be stamped HBAR is not the standard.

    I believe what the Tool meant wasn't that the barrel had to be stamped, but rather that simply having the barrel stamped (by whomever) would meet the legal requirement for being an hbar
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    I believe what the Tool meant wasn't that the barrel had to be stamped, but rather that simply having the barrel stamped (by whomever) would meet the legal requirement for being an hbar


    Yes sorry If I wasn’t clear.

    It seems that the rule doesn’t say who is or is not allowed to mark the barrel HBAR. It leads me to believe that if I were a reseller FFL why couldn’t I assemble custom AR15 builds and mark the barrels at that time.
     

    vgplayer

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    1,069
    King George, VA
    Yes sorry If I wasn’t clear.

    It seems that the rule doesn’t say who is or is not allowed to mark the barrel HBAR. It leads me to believe that if I were a reseller FFL why couldn’t I assemble custom AR15 builds and mark the barrels at that time.

    I don't think any FFL could do that, however, if they were FFL with a manufacturer license they could. Probably catch the eye of the MSP real quick if they were marking pencil barrels as HBARs.
     

    tkd4life

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 10, 2010
    1,737
    Southern Maryland
    I don't think any FFL could do that, however, if they were FFL with a manufacturer license they could. Probably catch the eye of the MSP real quick if they were marking pencil barrels as HBARs.

    Well since there is no legal definition of what an HBAR specific dimensions are, there would be nothing stopping them from doing so. If a barrel is turned 0.001" inches greater than the spec for a government profile, that is technically an HBAR.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    Im not talking about taking pencil barrels and marking them as HBAR, but marking obviously heavy profile barrels as HBAR.

    I’ve heard the engage armament orders barrels from WOA and has them marked HBAR. WOA doesn’t make the barrels they buy them from various barrel makers like Shillen and simply “finish” them. At some time during that finishing process they stamp their name and HBAR on the barrel. So it stands to reason that if they are able to simply stamp the barrel HBAR any Gunsmith (or possibly anyone) could also do so.
     

    Fester60

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2010
    782
    PA
    Look im not trying to spread misinformation but if I recall correctly it reads must be advertised as HBAR or stamped HBAR.

    How can you prove something was or was not advertised in some way. Take a screen shot of a website before you buy? Also where does it define who has the authority to determine what is or is not an HBAR and who has that authority to mark the barrel as such. Many companies simply put someone else’s product in a box with their name on it and just ship it out. Can they the distributor mark a barrel? If not why not?

    I have multiple HBAR uppers that were advertised as HBAR but not stamped. Yes I have screenshots saved of the webpages where they are marketed as Heavy Barrels. If I'm shooting in MD and anything happens that's about my only defense but I believe it's within the legal requirements.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    I have multiple HBAR uppers that were advertised as HBAR but not stamped. Yes I have screenshots saved of the webpages where they are marketed as Heavy Barrels. If I'm shooting in MD and anything happens that's about my only defense but I believe it's within the legal requirements.

    And is there a unique identifier on the physical barrel that links it to the screen shot advertisement? ID a manufacturer and model number or a serial number?
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    This brings up other questions. Say you buy a complete rifle advertised as an HBAR. The barrel that comes with that rifle is not stamped. The serialized part of the firearm is the lower.

    You swap in an unmarked heavy barrel. Is this still considered an HBAR.
     

    protegeV

    Ready to go
    Apr 3, 2011
    46,880
    TX
    This brings up other questions. Say you buy a complete rifle advertised as an HBAR. The barrel that comes with that rifle is not stamped. The serialized part of the firearm is the lower.

    You swap in an unmarked heavy barrel. Is this still considered an HBAR.

    yep
     

    Fester60

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2010
    782
    PA
    And is there a unique identifier on the physical barrel that links it to the screen shot advertisement? ID a manufacturer and model number or a serial number?

    No unique identifier, It's not a serialized part. I guess they would just have to take my word and my screenshot for it. Isn't it up to them to prove that it was never advertised as an HBAR? I think I read something once about innocent until proven guilty.
     

    AlanInSilverSpring

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 25, 2017
    1,645
    No unique identifier, It's not a serialized part. I guess they would just have to take my word and my screenshot for it. Isn't it up to them to prove that it was never advertised as an HBAR? I think I read something once about innocent until proven guilty .

    Technically, yes that's true. But going through the process of being falsely accused by the state and then having them be forced to not be able to prove your guilt can be quite a rough road to go down.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Technically, yes that's true. But going through the process of being falsely accused by the state and then having them be forced to not be able to prove your guilt can be quite a rough road to go down.

    This is the fatal flaw for the state. There is no industry definition of HBAR, nor is there a standard that is codified into COMAR. Without one or the other, the "We know it when we see it." act will fail every time. As long as it does not narrow down, like an M4 barrel, there isn't anything they can do. I mean FFS, a .745 barrel from the chamber to the .750 block stop, then back down to .745 to muzzle is technically an HBAR, under MD law and the standards that MSP has laid down, if you look at what AR-15's were on the regulated list, before the ban in 2013. The only barrel profile that is banned is the one in the pic below. Take note of how the barrel diameter under the hand guards is thinner than the barrel, after the gas block. That is the barrel profile that is banned.

    m4145bbl.jpg


    In the below pic, take note of how the barrel diameter under the hand guard is the same diameter as the barrel, after the gas block. According to the industry and COMAR, this barrel profile is legally an HBAR, because it does not exhibit the smaller diameter under the hand guard, like the one pictured above.

    834998.jpg


    But this barrel is being advertised as HBAR in the image search on Google and the URL, yet it has the same barrel profile as the one directly above this paragraph. The fact that it is a 9mm barrel is irrelevant to the HBAR or not argument, because MSP advisory says advertised or marked HBAR. It is being advertised as HBAR in the picture and also the URL. I would believe that would legally suffice for advertising as HBAR.
    http://www.jsesurplus.com/16WilsonArmsSS9MMHBarBarrel.aspx

    BAR16SS9MM.jpg


    Yet others are saying this is the only barrel that is considered HBAR, because they are being led down a path that they have created for themselves, via BGOS.

    omegamfgphosphatehbarbarrel.jpg
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I mean FFS, a .745 barrel from the chamber to the .750 block stop, then back down to .745 to muzzle is technically an HBAR, under MD law and the standards that MSP has laid down, if you look at what AR-15's were on the regulated list, before the ban in 2013. The only barrel profile that is banned is the one in the pic below. Take note of how the barrel diameter under the hand guards is thinner than the barrel, after the gas block. That is the barrel profile that is banned.

    Standard?? What "standard" laid down? The only thing they've said is advertised or marketed as HBAR.
     

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