M2 Ball Reloading Concerns

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  • dbledoc

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 8, 2013
    1,526
    Howard County
    I am new to reloading for my Garand. The CMP forums talk about using Varget. I don’t see it mentioned in the sources above.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I am new to reloading for my Garand. The CMP forums talk about using Varget. I don’t see it mentioned in the sources above.

    I have a load for varget that I worked up based on bullet weight , velocity and powder burn rate of Varget being right next to 748.

    I will also say that I did not shoot it much (maybe 20 rounds). I developed the load first in a bolt gun until I matched the velocity of HXP CMP surplus in the bolt gun to be between 2700-2750 then took a load close to 2700 to the Garand. I used a Sierra Pro Hunter cause I wanted a soft tip for hunting. Things looked so good that the load I tuned for the 1903a3 shot 2725fps from the Garand and was within 1/2" POI @ 100 yards compared to HXP as well as my IMR4895 loads that I left it be.

    OAL, Brass and the bullet all come into play of course but What load range are you seeing in the Forums there?
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,155
    The 6th did throw smoke out the barrel as it should have. A squib wouldn't do that.

    Go to YouTube and watch it full screen. You can see the first six rounds eject the shells properly. Then she has a problem and manually works the bolt and looks like she catches the ejected shell then she shoulders the rifle and fires again. The seventh round probably was the problem.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    If you slow the video down on her last shots, it looks like you can see the shell clearly eject towards the camera but it looks like there is something else that is ejected towards the rifle front?
    She clears the rifle without locking the bolt back and catches something in her left hand, doesn't put it her pocket? Inspects the chamber area...
    And then the catastrophe- wrecking of the rifle.
     

    8milimeter

    RICHARD (dino)
    Feb 15, 2009
    486
    Frederick, Md
    Varget

    I am new to reloading for my Garand. The CMP forums talk about using Varget. I don’t see it mentioned in the sources above.

    I use Varget exclusively in all my GSM CMP matches since 2008.
    Shot thousands of rounds with it.
    Garand & 1903
    155 NOS CC, 48.0 Varget, CCI 34, 3.285
    1917
    168, 46.8 Varget, CCI 34, 3.285
     

    dbledoc

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 8, 2013
    1,526
    Howard County
    I use Varget exclusively in all my GSM CMP matches since 2008.
    Shot thousands of rounds with it.
    Garand & 1903
    155 NOS CC, 48.0 Varget, CCI 34, 3.285
    1917
    168, 46.8 Varget, CCI 34, 3.285

    The 168 gr with 46.8 gr Varget is apparently what Hornady loaded for its national match loads. That is what I am trying to achieve. Unfortunately when I went to the range my chronograph wasn’t working.
     

    JohnC

    Active Member
    May 29, 2019
    311
    Baltimore, MD
    Few things. The M1 garand isn't a dainty flower that will crumble if you use hand loads. However, like all firearms there are limits of what you can run. There are hundreds of recipes out there, all vetted by experienced individuals but at the end of the day the choice is obviously yours.

    Follow reloading your reloading manual of choice and use standard powder (IMR 4064, I or H 4895, Varget, etc) standard bullet weights (People usually go between 125 and 168gr) and watch out for pressure signs. It's fudd lore that correctly assembled hand loads will destroy an M1 garand.
     

    JoeRinMD

    Rifleman
    Jul 18, 2008
    2,014
    AA County
    Follow reloading your reloading manual of choice and use standard powder (IMR 4064, I or H 4895, Varget, etc) standard bullet weights (People usually go between 125 and 168gr) and watch out for pressure signs. It's fudd lore that correctly assembled hand loads will destroy an M1 garand.

    I got the same lecture from Charlie Maloney when I took guns to him over the past summer. The words I underlined are the key issue == correctly assembled. Actually, I don't think he'd have a problem as long as the handloads truly were "correctly assembled". His main point is that handloaders can be more prone to "incorrectly loaded" ammo than that coming from a factory set up manufacture millions of rounds within the original specifications. That's not to say that no rounds ever leave in an out-of-spec situation, but the probabilities are much, much lower.

    JoeR
     

    Ponder_MD

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    4,559
    Maryland
    Right. I like I said earlier, it sounds more that Charlie's problem is a lack of faith in the people who assemble the hand loads, not that "hand loads bad" so his default advice is: Don't shoot hand loads.

    Here I am, a first-time reloader paired up with his fairly experienced buddy but we didn't check the bullet headspace. Now we're shopping for a case gauge. I'm seeing two types- One type will only check an empty case, another type will check empty cases or fully assembled bullets.
     

    JohnC

    Active Member
    May 29, 2019
    311
    Baltimore, MD
    I got the same lecture from Charlie Maloney when I took guns to him over the past summer. The words I underlined are the key issue == correctly assembled. Actually, I don't think he'd have a problem as long as the handloads truly were "correctly assembled". His main point is that handloaders can be more prone to "incorrectly loaded" ammo than that coming from a factory set up manufacture millions of rounds within the original specifications. That's not to say that no rounds ever leave in an out-of-spec situation, but the probabilities are much, much lower.

    JoeR

    Correct, but this is a moot point. If I compress a load of titegroup and smash a 150gr FMJ onto it- I'm going to have a bad day. No matter what cartridge, follow data and you'll be fine
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    Right. I like I said earlier, it sounds more that Charlie's problem is a lack of faith in the people who assemble the hand loads, not that "hand loads bad" so his default advice is: Don't shoot hand loads.

    Here I am, a first-time reloader paired up with his fairly experienced buddy but we didn't check the bullet headspace. Now we're shopping for a case gauge. I'm seeing two types- One type will only check an empty case, another type will check empty cases or fully assembled bullets.
    Just like most accidents, it takes two or three mistakes to end up with a bad outcome.

    Out of spec rifle, protruding primer, plus shooter error and boom. Or something else similar.

    If you have a technically sound rifle and practice good shooter safety, and are careful with your hand loads, you are fine.

    Garands are tougher than a lot of people make them out to be.

    Start with good brass, and maybe only shoot it two or three times. You'll know, if you start seeing case separations it's time to stop. Keep track of how many times it's been fired.

    Avoid machine gun brass. Preferably start with new brass and use it 2-3 times then get rid of it.

    M1A-M14 is a lot harder on brass than M1 is.

    Just my two cents but nothing in the world wrong with hand loads in an M1 if done correctly, and the rifle is technically sound and the shooter is safe.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Right, I'm starting to understand this now.

    Let me clarify: My friend measured more than just COAL after we put the bullet on, there was another measurement in the Hornady book that helped us trim the brass to the proper length. I believe this was just a more "manual" method of getting the proper headspace than using the case gauge.

    I've emailed him to confirm.

    NO.

    Headspace has NOTHING to do with COAL or case length, for bottle neck rounds. You need to do more reading before you do much reloading.

    COAL and case length ARE important, as is headspace.

    Headspace, for a bottle neck cartridge is the relationship between the chamber and the cartridge, based on the distance from the base to the shoulder.

    Case gauges can measure all 3 parameters, plus things like case diameter.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Man, I am drowning in myth vs. fact.

    The whole reason I'm looking at reloading, is to attempt to reproduce M2 ball to ensure that I don't damage the rifle. This 2019 article from the Garand Collector's Assoc. seems to indicate that commercial ammo is not the boogeyman that people make it out to be. The article seems to indicate that properly lubrication of parts (op rod) is more critical and that commercial ammunition with a bullet around 180 grains is perfectly safe without bothering with adjustable gas plugs.

    The problem is, bullet weight is not the only parameter.

    Yes, heavier bullets are problematic, as they are typically loaded with slower powders that raise the port pressure to dangerous levels. But you don't know, with a factory hunting round if it is faster or slower powder.

    I would not fire any commercial ammo that is not marked as being loaded for the M1 Garand in mine.

    I will shoot military surplus ammo, or ammo I have reloaded FOR THE GARAND.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Here I am, a first-time reloader paired up with his fairly experienced buddy but we didn't check the bullet headspace. Now we're shopping for a case gauge. I'm seeing two types- One type will only check an empty case, another type will check empty cases or fully assembled bullets.

    Standard reloading dies, if you adjust them as per the instructions will size the case to about SAAMI minimum dimensions.

    What you have to be sure of, is your RIFLE CHAMBER the proper dimensions.

    And this is where having a good gunsmith check the chamber headspace of the rifle.
     

    JamesDong

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 13, 2020
    3,260
    Duffield, Va
    The problem is, bullet weight is not the only parameter.

    Yes, heavier bullets are problematic, as they are typically loaded with slower powders that raise the port pressure to dangerous levels. But you don't know, with a factory hunting round if it is faster or slower powder.

    I would not fire any commercial ammo that is not marked as being loaded for the M1 Garand in mine.

    I will shoot military surplus ammo, or ammo I have reloaded FOR THE GARAND.

    Yup, for my Garand loads I clearly mark it in my chicken scratch "Garand OK" and I only use 4895 and 4064. :thumbsup: The 4350 goes into a bolt as well as the H335 which I just learned is M1 compliant but why take a chance when I have plenty of the other loads as well as HXP.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20000620055732/home.att.net/~Masterpo/M1load.htm

    Master Po's comments

    These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders. If you are using military cases, drop all charges by 2 grains.

    If you are looking for accuracy, drop all charges by 1 grain and work up .2 grains at a time.
     

    Ponder_MD

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2020
    4,559
    Maryland
    NO.

    Headspace has NOTHING to do with COAL or case length, for bottle neck rounds. You need to do more reading before you do much reloading.

    COAL and case length ARE important, as is headspace.

    Headspace, for a bottle neck cartridge is the relationship between the chamber and the cartridge, based on the distance from the base to the shoulder.

    Case gauges can measure all 3 parameters, plus things like case diameter.

    Yes, I've figured this out since I made that post.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    the biggest potential for error I can see is if you have both a M1 and a modern 30-06 and reload different charges for the 2. Need to distinguish between them. For me its easy. My only 30-06 is the M1.
     

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