Sudden 1911 Perplexing

Not meant to be general love/ hate of 1911 platform . Not the usual initial shakedowns .

Springfield " Loaded " .45acp . Presumably 1990's mfg , purchased used by me circa 2000 . Ran great, accuracy as expected , feed 100% of whatever fed .

Meanwhile , it has been taking a nap for about 10yrs , but recently back in the saddle . Albeit the rest of my 1911 mags are deeply ensconced somewhere on the Biggfoot estate , hiding from me , other than the empty mag in place . No name brand imeadately obvious , stainless body , 7 round follower . I can't recall if it came that way , or if I had preemptively installed a Virgil Tripp follower and spring . ( I like 7 round . IF I ever upgrade a .45acp magazine, either 1911 or Ruger , I use Virgil Tripp followers .)

Upon its reawakening , I lubed everywhere possible with slide racked back . ( It has Full Length guide rod . I hate FL guide rods ) For preliminary , ran a magazine of hardball , all was good .

Meanwhile picked up two more mags , Chip Mc Cormac basic stainless , and S&W branded w/ bumper pad .

So I then loaded up with some different loads for specific verification , and it all goes south .

Slide stars hanging up in retracted, but Not locked back . Take it in the house , get the multi bit t handle kit cursing FL guide rods . Field strip it , and there's chewed up bit of buffer . ( I didn't put it there , unknown if factory or previous owner .) Clean out buffer bits , clean everything , lube heavily with my long time prefered extra slippery lube ( which I'd used back when ran 100% ) Annnnd :

Different malfunctions . Not going fully into battery . Sometimes tap back of slide , sometime took serious grunting to extract .

Field stripped again a cpl more times, cleaned again, lubed again . Somewhat improved , but only somewhat . Declared the project too involved to take that evening . Tested some on the new ammo in trusty P-90 , gobbled everything , like usually , and as always .

Admitted Next Logical Step - Go back to ground zero , and eliminate variables . Major brand US made hardball , using the previously reliable 100% 7rd mag .
If that works , try other variables one at a time

My actual Question - Is there anything obvious I'm overlooking that would make a 100% reliable 1911 Suddenly act up . ( No , the extractor is Not broken , I've had that happen on a different older , high mileage 1911 , and that's the first thing I look for .)

I think you're on the right track by going back to ground zero. That should tell you if you have a problem or not.

This pistol stock?

Been there, done that.. Ammunition was the issue in one instance. If you have any of the older ammunition hiding in the bigfoot44 archives you may want to dig it up and compare dimensions. Some modern ball ammo makes have different ogive profiles. Also, one brand has been acknowledged as under powered and some guns won’t cycle because of their tolerance stack.

Over ambitious spring forces can be a culprit as well. An 18 pound recoil spring is too much in some guns.

The slide not going into full battery is indicative of possible ammunition or spring issues. Spring issues include mag springs.

Also, my experience is most flat bottom 8 round mag springs are weak...even new. The Ruger mags are good. Push down on that follower on one of their mags and they’ll enlighten you. Tell tail for this nose dives into the feed ramp. with the first couple rounds from a full mag. I like ‘em.

Could there be gun issues? Yes, but those guns are typically reliable. Barrel bump, bushing, link, mag catch, exyractor, frame and barrel feed ramps aswell as other issues would need to be logically inspected and corrected. That would be another approach.

Respring the gun and use an extra power mag spring, use some Federal ball or 230 grain ammo going at least 830 fps since that is spec for that application. Faster is fun, too!

I'd be looking for more buffer frags.

If its got a link and pin in it I would be looking at that. Do a stick test on it once you have the foreign bits out of it.

OP you said the extractor is not broken...did you also check extractor tension? Too much can cause FTRB.

I would replace the mag with a Wilson Combat mag. That resolved my issues with my SAMmy 1911.

There is a whole thread on 1911 mag's and folks preferences at:
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=217536

FWIW: I am in no way a 1911 expert or even hobbyist. The Wilson mag was suggested to me when I bought the gun from Lou.

Again , I am scratching my head because of the guns baseline of running 100% with hardball , standard vel 185, 200 +P, and multiple flavors of 230jhp . So * presumably * any inherent flaws would have shown up before .

The recoil spring "feels" like 18lb , but it's the same one since I bought it, and same one when it used to be 100% . Likewise , same link geometry as when it was 100t with all types of ammo . And can't hurt to field strip again and test extractor tension .

Indeed , I am inherently distrustful of 8rd mags . This afternoon I will attempt a box of 230fmj Blazer Brass ( what my LGS had in of US mfg brass hardball ) with my known proven 7rd mag only .

As to mags , I have been currently influenced by the Guru of JMB Original Spec 1911's , John Travis aka 1911Tuner . He swears by JMB and circa 1911 GI spec mags for fully controlled feeding . He dissents from the Wilson 47D and similar designs for early release and slam feeding .

His observation is that the current Checkmate mags have the closest to JMB feed lips current mfg so I ordered two in the wee hours this morning , and am hoping won't loose the Priority Mail pkg .

While I haven't used this 1911 for a goodly while , I have still been using .45acp in my ( non- 1911) Ruger, and Revolvers inbetween .

( I will try in a few minutes to see if I can get access to my email , for the info that Doco Overboard forewarded kindly to me .)

Checked extractor . Didn't have any fancy gages or fixtures, but round would slip up from underneath , and extractor would then hold loaded round in place .

Stepped to the Bigfoot testing facility, and 50 rounds straight of Blazer Brass went w/o a hitch . Called it a day, heading to bed ( night shift) .

Obviously , I am relieved at this intermediate context . But so far only reasonable confidence with one magazine , with hardball , both reasons to not yet declare Victory .

Since I have another .45auto that IS trustworthy for imeadate requirements of larger than 10mm autoloader, my initial thought is to test out more mags with hardball , before expending more JHP without reasonable expectations of sucuess . My current default all around JHP is semi affordable , and I have a medium stack of it , but I stil don't want to needlessly burn through it just in to the Test Facility back stop. .

An order to Virgil Tripp is in the cards. Just not sure if to order a cp sets now , or wait untesting the inbound Checkmates first .

Here's to hoping the parts you ordered work things out for you.

FWIW, the spec recoil spring for many years has been 16 pounders. The original was actually between 14 and 15 pounds. Testing was used
to establish the 16 pound value. the 18 pound thing started about 15 - 20 years ago and can be problematic. Many times is masks other
issues.

The difficult extraction you say occurs when you try to clear the jam maybe an extremely fouled chamber or the bullet being pushed into the
rifling of the barrel. The latter could cause difficult feeding. Also, if the slide cocking rail over the rim but pushing on the front of the case
extractor groove will indicate weak mag springs or short stroking from low powered ammo.

The slide hanging up not locked back may be it not going to full recoil position and being hung up on a high disconnector head. This would reduce
the slide's momentum to overcome the bump of an untuned disconnector/disconnector head and cocking rail front corner.

A tight extractor could cause a feed issue. Also too much extractor deflection.
While you are at it an extractor test I determined years back should include the ability of the extractor to hold the round
in the barrel link down position. This aspect being substandard will cause extraction issues and will seriously mess up a
magazine's feel lips.
Slide, barrel, bushing assembled, off the pistol help upside down. Slide barrel forward.
Slide a spent cartridge case just into the extractor. Slide the barrel back over the case and engage the lugs into battery position.
Turn the slide assembly right side up. Pull the barrel down then forward. The case should be retained by the extractor.
If not retained, tension or tuning the extractor may be required. If those two items are deemed in spec, the extractor wall and hook
have been over worked.

You could do that with the slide assembled on the frame with slide stop installed to get actually installed link down
extraction. Just pull the slide back and give the pistol a mild shake to make sure the case stays put.

Hear you about the 16lb , and if I had put one in it would have been a 16lb . As it functioned 100% as purchased and afterwards , I was leaving well enough alone until next time of replacing on purpose .

Trust me , with 255gr @ 950fps ( advertised) , the slide was coming fully back . ( Testing of woods load, not usual diet )

The other problem was the fired case being about halfway out the chamber , and then having to grunt to get the rest of the way to eject .

But as noted above with the known proven mag, with FMJ , no issues .

( And still haven't been able to get to the forewarded document)

That is hotter than a Buffalo Bore 45 +P load, getting a glimpse of 45 Super territory. The recoil may be causing inertia feed of the cartridges which may then be misfeeding uncontrolled. Next time it happens, see if the rim of the case is in front of the extractor. If it is then inertial feed may well be a factor.

If you want to shoot those loads you should tune the pistol for them.

Underwood +P . It fed fine . The sticking back I attributed to chewed up buffer .

Arrrrrrrrgh !

I had some daylight awake time today , and was bored waiting for the new magazines to arrive , so I had an idea .

I had a 1911 , a proven 1911 magizine , and a large stash of std pressure jhp that has been proven in another .45acp . What could go wrong ?

First three shots were fine .
Fourth round didn't Quite go into battery .

Gentle push didn't do it . Medium serious rap did .

But NOW pulling back on the slide by any of the usual techniques won't move it !?!

I've set it aside for now , to mull over the relative merits of REALLY pushing hard on slide , or firing it to clear it .


I was skeptical over the concept , but by process of elimination seems to point to a previously good extractor magically becoming intermittently bad , while not being fired . So I guess a new extractor is now in my future .

( Once upon a time , I did have a 1911 extractor fail on me , luckily in the middle of a match . But it was approximate 60yr old oem , with a zillion rounds through it . And it functioned reliably right up to the very shot where the hook sheared off . )

So what are the pros and cons of bracing edge of slide against hard surface and pushing with body weight vs shooting it , to be able to then replace extractor ? ( Even if I was hypothetically enthusiastic about paying 1 hour minimum shop time , I'm not really up for a 3- 9 month waiting line .)

Biggfoot44 said:

So what are the pros and cons of bracing edge of slide against hard surface and pushing with body weight vs shooting it , to be able to then replace extractor ?

Click to expand...

Just make sure it is pointed down range when you do it. That's pretty much my standard way of getting autos unjammed and have never had a problem. Your problem almost sounds like a pitted chamber would act except for the being able to fire 100 rounds without a problem. The only other thing I can think of is that your COAL is too long and somehow the bullet got jammed in the lead.

FWIW, I think most of Springfield's 90s and early 2000 1911s were Imbels. Not sure if that would make any difference with mags. My SA GI.45 circa 2002-2003 ran like a champ with GI mags after the initial break-in. Usual suspects over the first 2-300 rounds were stovepipes and an occasional hangup on the feed ramp with one mag that seemed to need the feed lips adjusted slightly. I tried two aftermarket mags. One wouldn't feed worth a crap and I actually had an issue where the feed angle stoved the FMJ rearward in the case preventing a feed. Not sure if that might be what happened to you? Other aftermarket mag I tried was a Wilson Combat and it ran fine. Not sure if that helps much. I haven't had that gun in oh. 8 or 9 years now. It's the only one I sold that I wish I hadn't.

Biggfoot44 said:

I had some daylight awake time today , and was bored waiting for the new magazines to arrive , so I had an idea .

I had a 1911 , a proven 1911 magizine , and a large stash of std pressure jhp that has been proven in another .45acp . What could go wrong ?

First three shots were fine .
Fourth round didn't Quite go into battery .

Gentle push didn't do it . Medium serious rap did .

But NOW pulling back on the slide by any of the usual techniques won't move it !?!

I've set it aside for now , to mull over the relative merits of REALLY pushing hard on slide , or firing it to clear it .


I was skeptical over the concept , but by process of elimination seems to point to a previously good extractor magically becoming intermittently bad , while not being fired . So I guess a new extractor is now in my future .

( Once upon a time , I did have a 1911 extractor fail on me , luckily in the middle of a match . But it was approximate 60yr old oem , with a zillion rounds through it . And it functioned reliably right up to the very shot where the hook sheared off . )

So what are the pros and cons of bracing edge of slide against hard surface and pushing with body weight vs shooting it , to be able to then replace extractor ? ( Even if I was hypothetically enthusiastic about paying 1 hour minimum shop time , I'm not really up for a 3- 9 month waiting line .)

Click to expand...

I don't know where you are at. But, if possible, I would hit up John Carduner and take it to him.

From the little bit I've read, I don't know for sure if it's an extractor.

I had a 1911 that gave me a fit with explainable malfunctions and it ended up being tiny bits of old recoil buffer.

OP,
FWIW I'm still thinking the extractor may be preventing the loaded round from sliding high enough on the breech face for smooth chambering.

That said, once you get it apart again, recommend taking the barrel out and giving your ammo the plunk test to see if loaded rounds chamber easily and sufficiently deep that the cartridge base is flush with or below the rear of the barrel hood. I would check all of your ammo to rule out an ammo issue.

If all of your ammo passes the plunk test, consider checking for smoothness at the transition between top of the barrel feed ramp and the lower entrance of the chamber. A little bit of polishing here might make a significant difference in chambering. I've also had to polish the top of the chamber with a felt bob and white polishing compound. These things have helped me get guns to feed different types of ammo that previously only liked 230 gr FMJ ball ammo.

As far as I know, ALL SA 1911 are Imbel based . Supposedly SA does some degree of fitting , assembly, finishing in U.S. .

If this was a virgin gun , I'd be questioning all the basic specs and dimensions . But it was broken in before I bought it , and earlier ran thru hundreds , if not 1k plus rounds with no problems ( didn't keep exact count) . If it was a fundamental dimentional problem , it would have been so from the start , and not instantly appearing .

I can barely wrap my head around the idea of an extractor losing tension from just sitting unfired .

And yes , I tested the standard pressure , probably on the mild end of hardball momentum , ammo thru my ( non-1911 ) Ruger .