My 1911 FTF issue

inkd · Apr 18, 2021

Melnic said:
Here is the result
How does this come into play for a failure that occurs long before that link cams over to move the barrel up into the grooves to lock up?

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Because it's slowing down the timing sequence. The slide stop is "bumping" on that hump which causes a little bit of a stall, enough to slow down the timing needed to feed the next round.

There is a good possibility that there are other contributing factors as well. The feed ramp in the frame itself may not be deep enough which causes the round to stall a little coming out of the magazine, then the slide stop bumps, which causes another stall. It looks like the bevel on the link is chewed up a little bit, which could be a burr somewhere in the channel between the barrel legs and that can cause a little drag.

I saw you had checked extractor tension so I won't mention that. But, that is also a big contributor in failures to feed.

All of these things add up and eventually cause issues with feeding.

Magnumite · Apr 18, 2021

This malfunction is a classic 3-point jam. Check out:
m1911.org, Click on Home Page link in middle of page, select “Technical Issues” from left side column on the page, click on 3-point jam.

As posted earlier barrel bump reduces the slide velocity because of the irregular feeding. It is said to stall the barrel on the pin thus stalling the cartridge being fed. The barrel bump needs to be corrected (mentioned in my earlier post). While you are working on the barrel, the barrel ramp to chamber wall at the bottom of the chamber opening should be gently radiused.

You may consider Wolff extra power mag springs. The 8 round capacity mags in the 7 round mag length bodies) sacrifice spring space for an extra round capacity. The top and second to top rounds many times will nose dive due to the lack of spring tension. The lost spring tension and the heavy column of metal the spring needs to support also prevents the round from maintaining proper ‘attitude’ during feeding. I used to just put 7 round followers and springs in the 8 round mags to just eliminate the malfunction. The new generation of 8 round mags are slightly longer allowing more spring in the mag. Push down on the follower of a Ruger full size or CMD mag. Lesson learned.

The longer narrower nose on the SWC you are using can be problematic, at least in my experience. I use the standard length/angle nose SWC since it is more forgiving - at least in my experience. Work on the length and and crimp after you get the pistol straightened out. As another member alluded to, it could be the reloads. If the slide is short stroking from underpowered ammo you can get misfeeds. Typically the rear of the case is pushed down in the mag. Weak mag springs can do that, too, since the round is not pushed up in time to be properly stripped from the mag.

Melnic · Apr 18, 2021

Bullfrog said:
Probably causing the barrel to bump up just a tiny fraction of the distance before it's supposed to, so the edge is no longer flush with the feed ramp and has begun to rise before it should. That would probably cause the dents you're seeing, when the 'corner' where the throating ends bumps the case.

Also interesting to see the dot pattern on the bottom of the barrel. Digitally encoded serial or lot number?

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Melnic · Apr 18, 2021

Pinecone said:
Take a picture of the breech face. And the feed ramp area.

inkd said:
Because it's slowing down the timing sequence. The slide stop is "bumping" on that hump which causes a little bit of a stall, enough to slow down the timing needed to feed the next round.

There is a good possibility that there are other contributing factors as well. The feed ramp in the frame itself may not be deep enough which causes the round to stall a little coming out of the magazine, then the slide stop bumps, which causes another stall. It looks like the bevel on the link is chewed up a little bit, which could be a burr somewhere in the channel between the barrel legs and that can cause a little drag.

I saw you had checked extractor tension so I won't mention that. But, that is also a big contributor in failures to feed.

All of these things add up and eventually cause issues with feeding.

what happens when I take too much metal off the corner?

Pinecone · Apr 19, 2021

John from MD said:
That bullet shape has been the standard for bullseye shooting with a 1911 before I learned about Bullseye shooting in the early sixties. The problem isn't the bullet.

Yeap. H&G 68.

I have shot 10s of thousands of them in various 1911s.

Pinecone · Apr 19, 2021

wilcam47 said:
Theres many stories on both sides, diferent brand guns, mags etc..just cuz it works in yours doesnt mean it will in his...

Trigger Tuner said:
That's for sure and especially with the 1911. There are a lot of things happening at the same time or within a split second and often what works cycling by hand does not work when actually firing the gun. I have magazines that never cause a failure in one gun but I cannot not get threw one mag without jamming in a different another gun. That's why I suggested trying a different magazine first.

Yes, but that bullet shape has being shot in 1911s for decades. MILLIONS of them without issue.

Even the shorter and stubbier 185 grain SWC.

Pinecone · Apr 19, 2021

Melnic said:
One more pic for ya

I would polish that.

Pinecone · Apr 19, 2021

Bullfrog said:
I understand that, but I was probably unclear in the way I described what I had in mind.

I meant that it looked like they might be releasing the middle part of the case early while still grasping the rim, due to the inconsistent taper. That would make the round angle more, and earlier, possibly hitting the top of the chamber.

I've seen the parallel feed lips and the angled feed lips, but that last one doesn't look like either. They don't have a consistent angle to then at all.

The stepped version does release the front part of the round early, actually, does not touch it at all.

The bullet is pushed up by the feed ramp, and that controls the angle. initially.

Then the rim clears the step, and the spring/follower/next round, pushes the back end up, aligning it.

If the breech face is rough, it slows the movement of the rim end up to align the round. And you get the classic round angled up and jammed into the top of the chamber.

Pinecone · Apr 19, 2021

John from MD said:
Try some dummies with the shoulder level with the case.

Agreed.

The powder coated bullet looks a little longer than the lead one. And the lead one looks to be seated a bit long.

A long round will cause the round to tip up more initially in feeding.

Melnic · Apr 19, 2021

Pinecone said:
I would polish that.

I will work on polishing the Breech face

Pinecone said:
Agreed.

The powder coated bullet looks a little longer than the lead one. And the lead one looks to be seated a bit long.

A long round will cause the round to tip up more initially in feeding.

If you are referring to the post #25, the Green is a live round that jammed.
The dark one is as I mentioned in the post, a dummy I loaded with a longer OAL on purpose. (BTW, that is a bronze/brown Powder coat, not lead).

Green ones are all about .050" past case mouth.

Per Posts #37, I did make some dummies w/ the bullet shoulder at the case mouth.

inkd · Apr 19, 2021

Melnic said:
what happens when I take too much metal off the corner?

I don't know, I've never taken too much off. This is a situation where you file a little and check fit a lot.

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Melnic · Apr 20, 2021

So, spent some time taking out the barrel / lug bump.
I did not do any polishing of the breach face yet. I'll keep that idea in my pocket for now.
I also removed the mag well that was added to the gun by the previous owner and put the original Kimber grips on.
This helps with using the Kimber and Wilson combat 7 round mags.

Took it to the range this morning and shot about 80 rounds all through the Kimber mag with a full 7 rounds each time.
Typically, my failures happened on the first round. when racking the slide. I used the longer OAL/shoulder rounds for round 7 and the shorter ones for the remaining 6 just to see.
Not a hiccup at all.
So to recap I think this is all I have done so far
1) Use Kimber Mag and not the 8 rounder
2) Polish Chamber on top where the round slides when the Jam was occurring
3) More crimp on the reloads
4) Remove Barrel / Lug Bump

Extractors are pretty inexpensive so I have a spare coming in, I'm going to see what happens when I run a lighter extractor tension. Maybe push things till I get extraction failures just to experience it.

I'd like to see what happens when I run 200 rounds through w/o cleaning. Once I have things working well, then I can start to try the other mags on a dirty gun then buy more mags that work.

Thanks all for the input.

John from MD · Apr 20, 2021

Polish, radius and adjust the extractor and keep it in your range bag. They do break.

Melnic · Apr 20, 2021

John from MD said:
Polish, radius and adjust the extractor and keep it in your range bag. They do break.

oh, I did polish the extractor radius (if I'm understanding this correctly) on the one that's in the gun right now.

BTW, with all of this I'm pretty certain I can now break down my 1911 with my eyes closed. I probably would not actually do it in fear of scratching the slide when putting the slide stop pin back in.

John from MD · Apr 20, 2021

Melnic said:
oh, I did polish the extractor radius (if I'm understanding this correctly) on the one that's in the gun right now.

BTW, with all of this I'm pretty certain I can now break down my 1911 with my eyes closed. I probably would not actually do it in fear of scratching the slide when putting the slide stop pin back in.

Oh my aching back! :lol:

Magnumite · Apr 21, 2021

The extractor in the pistol now needs a little more curve at the bottom of the hook. Use a magnifier visor and a loop. For more understanding of the 1911 and extractor. Good illustration in post #3.
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/

mpdaley · Apr 21, 2021

You might try checking the extractor. If it has too much tension or if it is not properly fitted & radiused, it can cause FTF.

Matt

John from MD · Apr 21, 2021

Matt, since you are new, I would like to make a suggestion. In order to have meaningful posts, read the previous posts before making your comment.

Trigger Time · Apr 21, 2021

Nice when it all comes together.

My 1911 FTF issue

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