Remington 700 or Winchester Model 70?

Im looking at getting into the precision rifle game. Im down to choosing between the Remington 700 or Winchester Model 70 in .308 or 30.06. Any recommendations on which one I should get and where to get it at a reasonable price?

-Mil-Surp-Phreak- said:

Im looking at getting into the precision rifle game. Im down to choosing between the Remington 700 or Winchester Model 70 in .308 or 30.06. Any recommendations on which one I should get and where to get it at a reasonable price?

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I see a lot more Remingtons in use for long range shooting, but Winchesters can be made to shoot just as well. IMHO, it comes down to the features and feel you like.

If you are an accomplished shot and plan to shoot to or beyond 1k, you'll likely enjoy the higher performance rifles better. If you are just starting out, or your shots run mainly inside 500-600 yards, the .308 is very hard to beat in terms of shootability, accuracy, cleaning, barrel life and factory match ammo.

Many people start out with a .308 and shoot it until they become proficient, then move into something better for long range. The .308 can be successfully used for very long range, but becomes inordinately "challenging" as ranges get long. I shoot a 20" .308 to 1k, but I need 42 moa to get there, and god knows what the wind is doing. With such a steep drop number, one doesn't have to blow the range call by much to miss by FEET. A longer barreled .308 might do it with 36 or 38 minutes. My .30-06 AI needs 29 moa, my 6.5-284 needs 26, my buddy's .300WinMag needs 24, all substantially less drop and more room for error.

ETA: You might consider heading down to Quantico on the 13th and look around a little. Steve is putting on another long range match and they'll be shooting at 50 shots between 800, 900 and 1k. If you'd like more info, send a PM/e-mail.

the rem 700 in 30/06 the strongist action made 3 rings of steel and very accurate the marines make sniper rifles out of um .

slayr15 said:

the rem 700 in 30/06 the strongist action made 3 rings of steel and very accurate the marines make sniper rifles out of um .

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http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-1593-700-xcr-tactical-long-range.aspx

and the M24

http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-835-m24.aspx

Actually the Marines use 7.62x51 NATO in a Remington short action. Here's the specs for the M40A3 USMC sniper rifle if you want to make one for yourself:

Action — The M40 has always been based on the proven Remington 700 Short Action (as opposed to the Long Action in the M24), and this is no different in the M40A3. These actions are all chambered in 7.62 mm NATO and are house tuned by Marine armorers; the trigger guard assembly is manufactured by the DD Ross Company, though several M40A3s use Badger Ordnance trigger guards. In 2007, the Marine Corp. began replacing the DD Ross trigger guard assemblies with the M5 detachable magazine trigger guard manufactured by Badger Ordnance.

Barrel — The barrel is a Schneider 610 /24-inch (25-inch), 5-groove, 1:12" match-grade heavy barrel.

Stock — All service M40A3s are based upon the A4 Tactical Riflestock, a high-quality benchrest-style fiberglass riflestock made by McMillan Fiberglass Stocks and cast molded in an OD Green color. The action is glass bedded into the stock with aluminum pillars, while the barrel is allowed to "float" (it is attached only to the action), ensuring maximum accuracy. The stock has adjustable length-of-pull (through a buttstock spacer system) and a Marine manufactured adjustable saddle-type cheekpiece. The stock also has 5 mount flush cups, 2 on each side front and back and 1 on the rear underside. One bipod stud is located on the underside of the forearm.

Sling — The model 1907 sling that has been historically used on M40A3s is currently being replaced with the Quick Cuff sling manufactured by Tactical Intervention Specialists.

Bipod — The M40A3s use a 6-9" Harris notched swivel type bipod with a KMW podlock. The QD bipod attaching screw is replaced with a screw made by Jon Tank of Tanks Rifle Shop.

Dayscope — A Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 rifle scope with illuminated reticle will replace the MST-100 Unertl type fixed 10x day scope currently used for the M40A3. The dayscope is mounted with Badger Ordnance Maximum scope rings, with a standard ring in the rear and a wider MAX50-brand ring in front, to allow for the mounting of a Badger Ordnance ringcap (enabling the mounting of SIMRAD add-on night vision devices). The scope base is a Badger Ordnance 30 minute-of-angle lugged base.

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Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40A3

LOL!! Im not looking to spend 3 grand on this rifle, just something to get me started. I've been looking for the Remington 700 short action but having no luck finding any at a decent price.

E Shell, whats the story with getting to shoot at Quantico? A buddy in the service says that he knows that he can invite me as a guest but not sure if civvy's can go and shoot on their own.

Are their public days?

dd214 i was talking about the action the 700 is tough i brought one to the last rally point shoot in 30/06 with hornady ballistic tips it was one hole at 200 yards.

slayr15 said:

dd214 i was talking about the action the 700 is tough i brought one to the last rally point shoot in 30/06 with hornady ballistic tips it was one hole at 200 yards.

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Yep, I think I am going to pick one up for myself. They are hard to beat for off the shelf accuracy. I had a Rem 700 in 7mm Rem Mag but it got stolen a few years ago. Excellent rifle.

Speaking of 7mm rem mag, I have a winchester 70 in that cailber that I'm prepping to sell. Look for it soon if interested in a precision rifle with plenty of knock-down power.

RobMoore said:

Speaking of 7mm rem mag, I have a winchester 70 in that cailber that I'm prepping to sell. Look for it soon if interested in a precision rifle with plenty of knock-down power.

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Price and pics?

One thing at a time. I'll post a thread in the marketplace when I'm ready (probably next week). Right now my plate is full buying an AK and getting ready for the State IDPA match.

slayr15 said:

the rem 700 in 30/06 the strongist action made 3 rings of steel and . . .

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Which cannot possibly be taken to imply that the Winchester action is NOT strong enough. IMHO, this is simply (1950's) marketing hype.

. . . and very accurate . . .

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On the average.

FWIW, I used to parrot the same old sort of "stuff" to my Winchester buddy, till I caught up with the times. His custom .300WinMag will shoot right with, or even better than, several of my custom Remingtons. If I want to talk about how much more accurate (all!?) Remingtons are, he's gonna want me to show him, which I just plain can't. It's more the barrel and the 'smith than the dif between these two actions. Ford or Chevy?

. . . the marines make sniper rifles out of um .

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True, but quite heavily modified, basically using only the receiver, as per DD214's posted specs. Hard to use such a heavily modified gun as a comparison tool for a factory rifle discussion.

FWIW, I'm definitely a "Remington Guy" and have about a dozen. No Winchester centerfire bolt guns in my stable. Do NOT, however, be too quick to discount the Winnie, which can be just as accurate and is still plenty "strong" (LOL). Winchester may have other features that some would consider 'superior', like controlled round feed, longer magazine box, etc.. the CRF could save your life one fine day, and just the longer mag box is good for another hundred FPS from handloads, the Rem box is soooo dang short . . . long slippery bullets have to go waaay down into the powder space . . .

-Mil-Surp-Phreak- said:

LOL!! Im not looking to spend 3 grand on this rifle, just something to get me started. I've been looking for the Remington 700 short action but having no luck finding any at a decent price.

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I'd suggest asking "al62" to price a PSS for you, and get it shipped in to your local FFL:
http://www.snipershide.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=146023&page=0&fpart=1

The 20" LTR is a great little rifle if you don't need to go to 1k. Reminds one of a deer rifle, but shoots more like a target gun. I have an LTR and shoot it regularly to 1k and beyond, but it's more a 600 yard gun and it's much more challenging to make long range hits with it than my 26" VS of the same (.308) caliber. Both run a very distant second in LR hittability to my 6.5-284, .30-06 Ackley and my friend's .300WinMag.

jpk1md said:

E Shell, whats the story with getting to shoot at Quantico? A buddy in the service says that he knows that he can invite me as a guest but not sure if civvy's can go and shoot on their own.

Are their public days?

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Basically, one must be a member to just "go shoot" ("Rec Fire") when ranges are available. If your friend is a member of QSC, then, yes, he can invite you as a guest. There are occasional public matches and classes open to the public, but those will be rather regimented and will follow the match porogram.

To be a civilian member, one must be 'sponsored' by two active duty mil/DoD people. This keeps the desired ratio of 2:1/mil:civvie. Occasionally, there is an imbalance, and they'll let civvies sign up w/o sponsorship. If needed, I can likely round up a few Marines to sponsor you, but it is customary for the civvie to pay the first year's dues for their two sponsors. This makes the first year a little more expensive, but the following year is a simple renewal.

Here is the website, take a look around and see how you like it. If interested, send a PM and I'll see about getting you in. http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/

E.Shell said:

To be a civilian member, one must be 'sponsored' by two active duty mil/DoD people. This keeps the desired ratio of 2:1/mil:civvie. Occasionally, there is an imbalance, and they'll let civvies sign up w/o sponsorship. If needed, I can likely round up a few Marines to sponsor you, but it is customary for the civvie to pay the first year's dues for their two sponsors. This makes the first year a little more expensive, but the following year is a simple renewal.

Here is the website, take a look around and see how you like it. If interested, send a PM and I'll see about getting you in. http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/

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Do you know how strictly they adhere to the "members must live within a 60 mile radius" rule?

DD214 said:

Do you know how strictly they adhere to the "members must live within a 60 mile radius" rule?

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Pretty strict, they have a map in the clubhouse with a tack in the middle of Quantico and a "60 mile" string on it. Word has it everybody gets strung up . . .

If you are too far for Quantico, there may be other long range options like Bridgeville, Cumberland, Williamsport, etc..