7MM PPC Improved

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  • dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    I just made a deal on a couple guns chambered in 7mm ppc imp, and wondering if anyone has any info on this cartridge, or knows where to get reloading dies for it. These guns were used for IHMSA competition. Any info more than welcome.


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    Park ranger

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 6, 2015
    2,315
    Neat. Sorry I can't help. Will be curious to hear how this turns out. There are several people out there that can do custom dies. I'd start with whidden gun works.
     

    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    Thanks, a little info on the guns, they were built by Wichita Engineering and Supply in the late ‘70s, when I was working there. The company owner, Nolan Jackson, was world champion a couple years, and decided he wanted to build “the best guns” for silhouette shooting. I worked in the machine shop and made some of the parts for these guns, so there is a personal connection.




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    Last edited:

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,382
    maryland
    Br is a .473 case head based on the old rem URBR match case cut to 1.5". The ppc is a .445 case head based on the .220 russian. Most people form the ppcs from sako or lapua .220 brass. Norma offers factory formed 6ppc brass, which would presumably need to be necked up and fire formed then either reamed or sized and neck turned.
     

    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    I was aware that it is based on .220 Russian brass, but don’t know much more about it. I think I have a fair amount of homework to do.


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    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    Total newbie on loading, I’ve seen the term “fire formed” in several places, care to elaborate! Any recommended reference books on hand loading in general?


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    KRC

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2018
    615
    Cecil County MD
    Fireforming is done when the parent cases for a cartridge (likely 6PPC or 220 Russian cases for your application) are fired in the chamber to reform the brass - literally blow it out - into its proper shape (7mmPPC Imp < which I assume means "Improved" here - probably straighter case wall, less steep shoulder). (Interesting chambering - what is/are the firearms?)

    Fireforming is done is a variety of ways, with a lighter load of powder (sometime a fast powder, sometimes with a powder typically used in loadings for that cartridge) and sometimes with a bullet, sometimes with just wadding or "cream of wheat" and no bullet.

    Although I'm not specifically familiar with the 7mmPPC Imp, you would likely first use a 7mm mandrel to open up the necks of the 220R/6mm cases to 7mm, seat a bullet LONG (to hold the case head against the boltface) and use a powder appropriate for that cartridge, but with reduced load on the low end of the book values for that powder/bullet weight. I also coat cases with a LIGHT coat of LIGHT oil (ie Kroil) as this helps keep the case head flat against the boltface as the shoulder is blown forwards. (FYI - to those who have a problem with using lubricated cases when fireforming, I have fireformed cases this way for decades.) Sometimes it takes more than one fireform firing to achieve full conformity to the chamber.
     

    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    Thanks for the description. Sounds like the type of thing that should be done under supervision of someone experienced the first couple times!

    The guns are Wichita Engineering and Supply Classic pistol and rifle. The company later changed the name to Wichita Arms. These guns were made sometime in the 1976-1980 time frame (hoping to find the actual dates), and I worked there in 1978-1979, so I likely made some of the parts in them. The company was owned by Nolan Jackson, and he won the nationals for IMHSA a couple years back then. The pistol was specifically designed for silhouette shooting. Both have walnut stocks with checkering, both barrels and actions are octagon stainless with brass inlay and lots of engraving. The pistol is serial #1 and the rifle is serial #3. Engraving could be by Ray Viramontez or Ralph P. Bone. From what I’ve read, both did engraving and stock work for Wichita Engineering, but not sure. I’m hoping that the owner of Wichita Arms (new owner a couple years ago) might be able to provide more insight.

    I think the 7mm PPC was the the forerunner of the 7mm IHMSA, as that round was actually developed by Wichita Engineering around 1980.


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    KRC

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2018
    615
    Cecil County MD
    It's not so complicated that you couldn't do it yourself with the right equipment, particularly if you have prior reloading experience. Doing the method described in my previous post would require a mandrel die and one or two mandrels (one 7mm mandrel if going from 6mm to 7mm, possibly two if from .22 - one from 22 to 6mm, and then 6mm to 7mm) to open up the necks using lots of lube. Anyone out there done 220 Russian to 7mm in one step?

    ns418AS.jpg


    Then prime and load the case to a minimum powder load as per reliable data, seat a bullet long using your dies, and go shoot. You'll probably want to pick up the mandrel die and mandrels (image) if you are planning to keep and shoot these guns, as you may have to make cases on an intermittent basis. Do you have pictures of any cases or the guns?
     

    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    It's not so complicated that you couldn't do it yourself with the right equipment, particularly if you have prior reloading experience. Doing the method described in my previous post would require a mandrel die and one or two mandrels (one 7mm mandrel if going from 6mm to 7mm, possibly two if from .22 - one from 22 to 6mm, and then 6mm to 7mm) to open up the necks using lots of lube. Anyone out there done 220 Russian to 7mm in one step?

    ns418AS.jpg


    Then prime and load the case to a minimum powder load as per reliable data, seat a bullet long using your dies, and go shoot. You'll probably want to pick up the mandrel die and mandrels (image) if you are planning to keep and shoot these guns, as you may have to make cases on an intermittent basis. Do you have pictures of any cases or the guns?


    The gunbroker ad was taken down when we reached a deal. I asked the seller to send me the pictures. Don’t have any pictures of shells from these guns, but very similar to this one https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...---40-price-reduced--41-.cfm?gun_id=100806619 except not a boxed set and not matched serial numbers. Mine are actually a little nicer as they have brass inlay on the bolt and muzzle. Since RCBS made the dies for this one, perhaps they still have the prints to make another set. I’ll have to check on that.


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    dgapilot

    Active Member
    May 13, 2013
    704
    Frederick County
    The guy that owned Wichita Engineering was big into silhouette shooting. He was experimenting with different rounds and that’s why a number of guns that came out of the shop have this unusual round. He was one of the early members of IHMSA, and won either national or international champion a couple times back then. They had a line of round barrel silhouette guns, and varmint rifles, but the Classic series with octagon barrels were the top of the line. A plain Classic rifle with no engraving was over $1200 in 1979. I can only imagine what these went for new with all the detail work.


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