Legally, can you buy a handgun out of state?

lasher9999 · Dec 3, 2011

Ok, so I understand the law as it is applied, but having just read it again:

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section...

I have a new question. As the above is written, I as a Maryland resident can buy a handgun in Pennsylvania or any other state. Federal law does not forbid it. I just can't bring it back to Maryland!

Read it literally and that is what it says!

Inigoes · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
Ok, so I understand the law as it is applied, but having just read it again:

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section...

I have a new question. As the above is written, I as a Maryland resident can buy a handgun in Pennsylvania or any other state. Federal law does not forbid it. I just can't bring it back to Maryland!

Read it literally and that is what it says!

There is a federal law, circa 1989 brady bill: the photo identification that you provide must be the same as the state where the purchase is being made.

Markp · Dec 3, 2011

§ 478.99 Certain prohibited sales or deliveries.

(a) Interstate sales or deliveries. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall not sell or deliver any firearm to any person not licensed under this part and who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business or activity is located: Provided, That the foregoing provisions of this paragraph (1) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun (curio or relic, in the case of a licensed collector) to a resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business or collection premises is located if the requirements of §478.96(c) are fully met, and (2) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes (see §478.97).

/Thread

Boom Boom · Dec 3, 2011

An FFL *might* let you pay for the handgun but will not you leave with it if you're buying out of state. The only way it's leaving the FFL's possession is by overnight shipment to an FFL in your home state, unless you happen to have an 01 FFL license on your person.

mikec · Dec 3, 2011

Boom Boom said:
An FFL *might* let you pay for the handgun but will not you leave with it if you're buying out of state. The only way it's leaving the FFL's possession is by overnight shipment to an FFL in your home state, unless you happen to have an 01 FFL license on your person.

Paying for a handgun in another state is no different than buying on Gunbroker.

If you plan on buying in another state, it is a good thing to be on very good terms with the FFL you want to deal with back home. It helps reduce issues.

lasher9999 · Dec 3, 2011

So that covers a sale by an FFL. Anything cover a private sale? FTF?

Inigoes · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
So that covers a sale by an FFL. Anything cover a private sale? FTF?

That idea will land you in jail quickly. Sales are not only regulated by the feds, but each state also.

In PA you have to go through a FFL, or the Sheriff.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/PASL.pdf

lasher9999 · Dec 3, 2011

Really? Pennsylvania does not allow private sales? Then how about Virginia or West Virginia? My point is not the individual state. Just that federal law does not prohibit it.

Boom Boom · Dec 3, 2011

mikec said:
Paying for a handgun in another state is no different than buying on Gunbroker.

Yes and no. For the most part, the 01 FFLs on Gunbroker allow residents of another state to make a purchase, followed by an FFL transfer to the buyer's home state. In general, no 01 FFL is required to allow out-of-state purchases. Some gun dealers won't let someone from out-of-state handle a handgun, never mind allow them to purchase it. I witnessed this myself at the gun show in Frederick a few weeks ago when Virginia residents asked to see handguns. Some dealers simply said no. One dealer told them to go away. Maybe not good business practice, but it's their choice.

Inigoes · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
Really? Pennsylvania does not allow private sales? Then how about Virginia or West Virginia? My point is not the individual state. Just that federal law does not prohibit it.

Q: May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?
If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#state-purchase

mikec · Dec 3, 2011

The Fed's also allow a soldier who is stationed in another state than his home state to buy in either state. Markp, did I get that right???

There are rules that have to be followed, but it can be done.

lasher9999 · Dec 3, 2011

Interesting that we have moved from statutory law to regulation. There appears to be nothing in federal statutory law to forbid a private sale from a citizen of one state to a citizen of another state. Federal statutory law simply forbide the buyer from transporting the handgun back to his home state.

Statutory law of course is that which is passed by Congress. regulatory law is some agencies implimentation of their inrerpretation of statutory law.

mikec · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
Interesting that we have moved from statutory law to regulation. There appears to be nothing in federal statutory law to forbid a private sale from a citizen of one state to a citizen of another state. Federal statutory law simply forbide the buyer from transporting the handgun back to his home state.

Statutory law of course is that which is passed by Congress. regulatory law is some agencies implimentation of their inrerpretation of statutory law.

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-acquire

narcolepticsniper · Dec 3, 2011

Wait... I have a MD license, and pay MD income taxes. I am a MD resident.

---BUT---

I am on Military orders in Virginia, and live in Virginia. By law, I'm regarded as a VA resident too.

So I can buy one in VA -or- MD.

lasher9999 · Dec 3, 2011

mikec said:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-acquire

This of course is ATF's interpretation of a law that doesn't say that exactly.

mikec · Dec 3, 2011

narcolepticsniper said:
Wait... I have a MD license, and pay MD income taxes. I am a MD resident.

---BUT---

I am on Military orders in Virginia, and live in Virginia. By law, I'm regarded as a VA resident too.

So I can buy one in VA -or- MD.

Talk to Markp. He is from somewhere else, was living in MD and now is in VA. Also military. He understands the military exemption.

mikec · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
This of course is ATF's interpretation of a law that doesn't say that exactly.

I have been buying firearms since 1980, these are the rules we have had to play with since at least then. Since ATF licenses dealers, I doubt you will get any to agree with you.

Markp · Dec 3, 2011

mikec said:
Talk to Markp. He is from somewhere else, was living in MD and now is in VA. Also military. He understands the military exemption.

If you are from MD, have an MD license, and pay MD taxes and are on active duty with Orders stationing you in VA, then you are, in fact able to buy firearms in BOTH states, provided you can prove you live in MD (a bill in your name to a VA address is sufficient.) You will also need proof of US citizenship unless you have a VA CHL (which I might add you can get a RESIDENT permit, as long as you are stationed in VA, regardless of your home of record.)

Mark

Markp · Dec 3, 2011

lasher9999 said:
Interesting that we have moved from statutory law to regulation. There appears to be nothing in federal statutory law to forbid a private sale from a citizen of one state to a citizen of another state. Federal statutory law simply forbide the buyer from transporting the handgun back to his home state.

Statutory law of course is that which is passed by Congress. regulatory law is some agencies implimentation of their inrerpretation of statutory law.

Yes, but 18 USC 922A(1) applies to you without any need for regulatory interpretation... YOU CANNOT TRANSFER A FIREARM INTERSTATE WITHOUT A LICENSE OR OTHER FEDERAL BLESSING.

That's just the way it is.

27 CFR 478 applies only to licensees, not mere mortals, if you wish to risk violating 18 USC 922, knock yourself out. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

Abacab · Dec 3, 2011

My mom splits her time between New York and Maryland and I highly doubt New York will sell her a handgun without A) a New York driver's license or B) a New York Pistol Permit.

Legally, can you buy a handgun out of state?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Active Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Head'n for the hills

Active Member

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

That one guy

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics