Sheriff's Authority - Real? or hopeful?

DucksRFlyin · Mar 29, 2019

What of this news of Sheriff's being the primary LEO and saying they intend to defend our constitutional rights.??.

I support them in spirit and intent but have also been doing a bit of research on the legal side of it, the historical comparisons, and human nature aspects -and looking at the reality of our mostly zombie culture. I'm thrilled to have their promise of support and give them support but I agree with many commentaries that it does not look good for us being able vote our way out of this trend into tyranny.

What do you say about the reality of the Sheriffs stated positions?

Inigoes · Mar 29, 2019

Sheriff's are the chief law enforcement officer constitutionally.

However, everyone's opinion on what the 2A means is different.

Name Taken · Mar 29, 2019

You have a one person Department if the County decides to not fund said Department. Typically they would then introduce a Police Department via legislation.

So yeah....good luck.

lazarus · Mar 29, 2019

Name Taken said:
You have a one person Department if the County decides to not fund said Department. Typically they would then introduce a Police Department via legislation.

So yeah....good luck.

Which depends on the county. Some counties have police departments and sheriff’s departments. Some only sheriffs departments.

Howard county’s chief law enforcement officer and Chief Gartner. The sheriff’s office handles court and jail security and evictions. The county police department handles law enforcement

DucksRFlyin · Mar 29, 2019

Sheriff Mack

I have been re-reading much of Sheriff Mack's writings and speeches.. If I genuinely stand for and defend the 2nd and rest of the Bill Of Rights, I have to think these Sheriffs are doing the same and honestly expressing it. I guess being sober about the reality of a situation is different than being doubtful. I go back and forth. So many patriots have become generally doubtful (if not disdainful) about the police. Inside the police and military of past evolving tyrannies I suppose the same kind of divide occurred between white and black hats. It's happening at all levels.

I think Maryland is in an interesting spot with this issue- with the rural / urban divide being so strong. Balkanization, and legal secession is becoming more realistic ( and desirable IMO if it can happen without violence)..

DucksRFlyin · Mar 29, 2019

I wonder about the MSP too. How many patriots ? How many goobs/zombies? I know some men in both the Sheriff's office and MSP ( At least I think I know them) - Guys who grew up with patriotic principles and conservative views - went into the job to serve their community. I wonder how those kind will stand ? I sometimes wonder how well I will stand up when they take my job, home, threaten my family, shoot my dog etc..

They will face career-killing decisions or worse if it gets that far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE5u0lPZOok

rbird7282 · Mar 29, 2019

lazarus said:
Which depends on the county. Some counties have police departments and sheriff’s departments. Some only sheriffs departments.

Howard county’s chief law enforcement officer and Chief Gartner. The sheriff’s office handles court and jail security and evictions. The county police department handles law enforcement

Btw, Gardner is gone

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name Taken · Mar 29, 2019

lazarus said:
Which depends on the county. Some counties have police departments and sheriff’s departments. Some only sheriffs departments.

Howard county’s chief law enforcement officer and Chief Gartner. The sheriff’s office handles court and jail security and evictions. The county police department handles law enforcement

Oh it that how it works...Gee-Jolly thanks.

I think you are missing the point of the conversation a bit. The "Chief LEO", according to several long standing historical documentation, and some folks make the argument over constitutionally it is ONLY the SHERIFF.

Yes some places have legislated a Police Department over a Sheriffs office. Most places have both. There's a few counties that only have Sheriffs.

My comment was based on the OP's question though. What if a Sheriff (in what is presumed to be a part of the state where SD's are the primary LE agency) decided not to enforce what they decided to be illegal laws. My response is they are one budget meeting away from not being a Department. So even if you put a conservative Sheriff in office it doesn't mean they have endless and continual power.

It can get in the weeds really but I certainly understand the law enforcement make up Maryland's MANY Departments and Agencies.

DucksRFlyin · Mar 29, 2019

Gardner Replaced

rbird7282 said:
Btw, Gardner is gone

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A "diverse" replacement paid $200K+ ..
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/howard/ph-ho-cf-new-howard-police-chief-0110-story.html

"Myers will officially become Howard’s police chief on Feb. 1, and will receive a salary of $209,110, according to a county spokesman."

No , of course she was selected for her solid career of real police work, leadership and dedication to the principles of our Constitution..

Mark75H · Mar 29, 2019

RE: MSP rank and file. Knowing a few Troopers, my impression is they represent the general public in 15% are anti, 15% are pro and 70% don't really have an opinion one way or the other.

DucksRFlyin · Mar 29, 2019

Mark75H said:
RE: MSP rank and file. Knowing a few Troopers, my impression is they represent the general public in 15% are anti, 15% are pro and 70% don't really have an opinion one way or the other.

"...70% don't really have an opinion one way or the other." Those are the ones that risk being turned into the 'door busters' and concentration camp guards -"just doing their job"

Jordan Petersen makes the point about human nature very clearly. His quote pointing to far greater likelihood that people would become a Nazi concentration camp guard than a freedom fighter -- “I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil.”

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Mar 29, 2019

The only reason for a county police department is power. The head of the county governments appoints the Chief of Police...therefore the police chief is beholden to the county exec and reflects the exec's priorities or he wouldn't have the job. The County Sheriff is elected so he's beholden to the voters. Both can be good or bad at their job but the Sheriff reflects the wishes of the citizens not one person.

There's no reason for a county police department as it duplicates manpower, equipment and budget with the already existing Sheriff's Office.

lazarus · Mar 29, 2019

Name Taken said:
Oh it that how it works...Gee-Jolly thanks.

I think you are missing the point of the conversation a bit. The "Chief LEO", according to several long standing historical documentation, and some folks make the argument over constitutionally it is ONLY the SHERIFF.

Yes some places have legislated a Police Department over a Sheriffs office. Most places have both. There's a few counties that only have Sheriffs.

My comment was based on the OP's question though. What if a Sheriff (in what is presumed to be a part of the state where SD's are the primary LE agency) decided not to enforce what they decided to be illegal laws. My response is they are one budget meeting away from not being a Department. So even if you put a conservative Sheriff in office it doesn't mean they have endless and continual power.

It can get in the weeds really but I certainly understand the law enforcement make up Maryland's MANY Departments and Agencies.

Decided to take the “coming across as an ass” tactic?

I didn’t disagree with what you were saying originally. Trying to expand upon it for the OP. Many Maryland counties the Sheriff isn’t the chief law enforcement officer in reality. The OP may or may not have realized that.

lazarus · Mar 29, 2019

DucksRFlyin said:
I have been re-reading much of Sheriff Mack's writings and speeches.. If I genuinely stand for and defend the 2nd and rest of the Bill Of Rights, I have to think these Sheriffs are doing the same and honestly expressing it. I guess being sober about the reality of a situation is different than being doubtful. I go back and forth. So many patriots have become generally doubtful (if not disdainful) about the police. Inside the police and military of past evolving tyrannies I suppose the same kind of divide occurred between white and black hats. It's happening at all levels.

I think Maryland is in an interesting spot with this issue- with the rural / urban divide being so strong. Balkanization, and legal secession is becoming more realistic ( and desirable IMO if it can happen without violence)..

The issue is that most state wouldn’t have a realistic way of dividing themselves up and forming a new state. As for the US doing that, it would be a total patchwork of what is left. You can argue who are the harder working, but for tax revenue purposes, the blue states produce an outsized part of federal revenues compared to red states and red states use an outsized amount of federal revenues.

Sure there are exceptions like Texas, but they are the exception, not the general rule.

And when it comes down to it, it would likely screw the resulting countries in to the ground for a variety of reasons (things like costs being higher because now you need two militaries, two FBIs, etc. which increases proportional costs to each).

fabsroman · Mar 29, 2019

lazarus said:
The issue is that most state wouldn’t have a realistic way of dividing themselves up and forming a new state. As for the US doing that, it would be a total patchwork of what is left. You can argue who are the harder working, but for tax revenue purposes, the blue states produce an outsized part of federal revenues compared to red states and red states use an outsized amount of federal revenues.

Sure there are exceptions like Texas, but they are the exception, not the general rule.

And when it comes down to it, it would likely screw the resulting countries in to the ground for a variety of reasons (things like costs being higher because now you need two militaries, two FBIs, etc. which increases proportional costs to each).

Take a look at this map. What you have said is a common talking point of the left. The blue states provide more federal revenue and the red states take more of that revenue. Thing is, I think the money might be moving out away from the traditionally blue states. New York State is seeing a loss of about 30% of its revenue this year because the big money makers are leaving the state.

https://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/

Maryland isn't fairing much better.

Then, you also have to take into account how state and local taxes play a part in all of this. Maryland's state and local income tax rate is between 8 and 9%. New York State is around 12%.

I think the data needs to be delved into a little further as to which states are receiving federal money. For instance, under the old tax code, the federal government was actually subsidizing blue states with the state and local income tax deduction. People in those states actually received a deduction for what they paid in state and local income taxes, and the deductions were huge. Now that it has been limited to $10,000, people in Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, etc. are really feeling it. Those states are feeling it too with the amount of money leaving the state.

We can talk more about this in person when it is easier to provide examples wherein somebody is making $1,000,000+ and how much more tax sense it makes nowadays to relocate to Florida, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.

fabsroman · Mar 29, 2019

To answer the OP, it really depends on what amount of authority the Sheriff has in your county, or if the Sheriff is willing to start a civil war with the local police department. MoCo and HoCo have both a police department and a sheriff's department. Each have their own areas to cover. Heck, some cities like Rockville, Laurel, and Greenbelt have their own police departments.

If you are in a "rural" county, the sheriff is the only law enforcement around, and the sheriff says he/she will not enforce anti 2A laws, make sure you find out which laws the sheriff believes are anti 2A, and then hope you are not stopped or investigated by MSP.

motorcoachdoug · Mar 30, 2019

Hmm this started me thinking and wondering. Could a pro 2A Sheriff arrest the head of a police dept who is very anti 2A and charge them with failure to uphold oath of office and or stretching things abit arrest Herr Froshy and all his minions for treason, failure to uphold oath of office to support and DEFEND the US Constitution from all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC ?>???

Mark75H · Mar 30, 2019

motorcoachdoug said:
Hmm this started me thinking and wondering. Could a pro 2A Sheriff arrest the head of a police dept who is very anti 2A and charge them with failure to uphold oath of office and or stretching things abit arrest Herr Froshy and all his minions for treason, failure to uphold oath of office to support and DEFEND the US Constitution from all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC ?>???

He could, but the local prosecutor would also have to be an ally, as would the judge it was brought to. Hat trick in MD? Not likely. WV or KY; more likely, but you'd be hard up to find the local anti head cop there as well.

Inigoes · Mar 30, 2019

lazarus said:
I didn’t disagree with what you were saying originally. Trying to expand upon it for the OP. Many Maryland counties the Sheriff isn’t the chief law enforcement officer in reality. The OP may or may not have realized that.

The reality is the other law enforcement entities want to usurp the sheriffs power and try to claim the title of top dog (the chief LEO).

They can't constitutionally. All need the Sheriff's consent to operate within the sheriff's jurisdiction. There are inter agency agreements made long ago, that people forget about.

TexDefender · Mar 30, 2019

Name Taken said:
Oh it that how it works...Gee-Jolly thanks.

I think you are missing the point of the conversation a bit. The "Chief LEO", according to several long standing historical documentation, and some folks make the argument over constitutionally it is ONLY the SHERIFF.

Yes some places have legislated a Police Department over a Sheriffs office. Most places have both. There's a few counties that only have Sheriffs.

My comment was based on the OP's question though. What if a Sheriff (in what is presumed to be a part of the state where SD's are the primary LE agency) decided not to enforce what they decided to be illegal laws. My response is they are one budget meeting away from not being a Department. So even if you put a conservative Sheriff in office it doesn't mean they have endless and continual power.

It can get in the weeds really but I certainly understand the law enforcement make up Maryland's MANY Departments and Agencies.

Being new relatively new here, I was amazed that PG County Police is the top dog there and the Sheriff is the second (if you can even call it that). It look's like that was a democrat (Ok, political) move to de-fang that department. Where I grew up it was like a pyramid, Police was for cities/towns. Sheriff's were the whole county to include the cities/towns. State troops, were the entire state, counties and cities/towns included. Rangers were the all of the above and have some special functions. (I'm not trying to turn this into a rehash of the Civil War.)

Sheriff's Authority - Real? or hopeful?

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