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  • Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    No, you get your rifle/shotgun endorsement when you turn 18, and you get your handgun endorsement when you turn 21. No need for multiple licenses or re-issuing a license with more rights.

    If you end up in NICS for any reason, the license is suspended, pending an appeal process. If the appeal process does not go in your favor, the license is revoked.

    We need to tighten up the definition of prohibited person..

    No more 10 year misdemeanors...

    Only then is this workable.. NICS needs much reform..

    Only a court order can revoke a right. It can be proforma based on and allong side a conviction...but no more retroactively reclassified crimes...

    Other wise it fails substantive due process.

    And if we allow that we are on the slippery slope to ending the right.

    If a Lic is required to exercise a right, then revocation requires a sepeate court order... article 3 courts and substantive due process.

    Not an admistive short cut.

    It may be that we are saying the same thing
    . In which case my bad and

    :beer:
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    We need to tighten up the definition of prohibited person..

    No more 10 year misdemeanors...

    Only then is this workable.. NICS needs much reform..

    Only a court order can revoke a right. It can be proforma based on and allong side a conviction...but no more retroactively reclassified crimes...

    Other wise it fails substantive due process.

    And if we allow that we are on the slippery slope to ending the right.

    If a Lic is required to exercise a right, then revocation requires a sepeate court order... article 3 courts and substantive due process.

    Not an admistive short cut.

    It may be that we are saying the same thing
    . In which case my bad and

    :beer:

    Yeah, my definition of prohibited person would be somebody that is in prison. Get out of prison, you get your rights back. Right to vote. Right to 2nd Amendment. Right to freedom of speech. You get all of them back. If you are to be trusted in society, then you must be on equal footing with all the others that are trusted. If we cannot trust you with a gun, which you can obtain illegally anyway, then you need to stay in prison.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    Yeah, my definition of prohibited person would be somebody that is in prison. Get out of prison, you get your rights back. Right to vote. Right to 2nd Amendment. Right to freedom of speech. You get all of them back. If you are to be trusted in society, then you must be on equal footing with all the others that are trusted. If we cannot trust you with a gun, which you can obtain illegally anyway, then you need to stay in prison.

    There is some room for negotiation here.. conditions of probation etc..

    What is not negotiable to me is that a Court, an actual article 3 court with all the protections of substantive due process make the call on a case by case basis pursutaint to law.

    If the danger is so "clear and present " the state should have little trouble making a case. Let them. Its their burden of proof.
     

    501st

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 16, 2011
    1,627
    This vid doesn't cover down on private sale. If you're a legit gun owner selling to another private person, how are you vetting their background? That's the anti's issue.

    In states that issue Carry permits, most people only sell to people with said permits.

    Some people maintain a bill of sale which can be used to trace the buyer should the need arise.

    But private sales to prohibited persons is essentially a non issue.

    2 studies.

    One from the FBI in 2006:

    http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...iew=1up;seq=63

    page 51 in that pdf:

    None of the [attackers’] rifles, shotguns, or handguns … were obtained from gun shows or related activities.
    also from that pdf on page 52, there is a lengthy paragraph about what a criminal thinks about gun laws and buying a gun from a store/pawnshop/gunshow/private sale.

    here is a brief quote:

    The 8,000 new gun laws would have made absolutely [no difference], whatsoever, about me getting a gun. … I never went into a gun store or to a gun show or to a pawn shop or anyplace else where firearms are legally bought and sold.
    The second link is from the bureau of justice statistics report from 2004:

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

    On page 13 (table 14) you will see the percentage breakdown of sources of crime guns. Note that 0.8% came from a gun show, and 0.6% from a flea market, for a total of 1.4% from "private sales" generally done without a background check.
     

    Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    Fabs was close at #522 . Just need to add "sucuessfully complete parole ". At least one state routinely grants Pardons at that point. To be hyper cautous add a time peroid of no further convictions or pending charges for a set period of time after completing sentance/ parole/ probation. To pluck a number from thin air a recidivist dirtbag isn't going to go 5yrs without getting cought again. The exact number can be negeoated. 3yrs would still trip up 99.9% of recidivist dirtbags. 10yrs would still be a big leap forewards for non-dangerous ex-ofenders who either have reformed , or were cought up a bogus 3yr misdemeanor , or a paperwork white collar offense.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Fabs was close at #522 . Just need to add "sucuessfully complete parole ". At least one state routinely grants Pardons at that point. To be hyper cautous add a time peroid of no further convictions or pending charges for a set period of time after completing sentance/ parole/ probation. To pluck a number from thin air a recidivist dirtbag isn't going to go 5yrs without getting cought again. The exact number can be negeoated. 3yrs would still trip up 99.9% of recidivist dirtbags. 10yrs would still be a big leap forewards for non-dangerous ex-ofenders who either have reformed , or were cought up a bogus 3yr misdemeanor , or a paperwork white collar offense.

    I could live with waiting to give a person his rights back after his release from prison until he finishes parole or 2 years passes from the date of release, whichever comes first.

    It just drives me nuts that somebody can lose their 2nd Amendment Right for LIFE on stuff that isn't even violence oriented. The entire theft greater than $1,000 drives me nuts. Steal $1,000 of anything, and you lost your 2nd Amendment Right in Maryland pretty much FOREVER. An 18 year old kid makes a stupid mistake and steals a couple of items from a shed and he/she loses his 2nd Amendment Right FOREVER.
     

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