.22 Machine Guns

Doctor_M · Nov 13, 2017

OK.... now that all of my Form 4s are out of jail, it is time to start saving, plotting, and planning for the next purchase.

I'm tossing around the idea of buying a .22 RF machine gun (haven't committed to this notion yet), so I wanted to throw the question out to the experts.

Would you choose an American 180 or a converted Ruger 10/22. I kind of figured that the Ruger might be a cheaper option, but a check of recent trends show them both to be around the $12-14K range (with the Ruger perhaps averaging a bit higher than the American).

Anyone have thoughts on this. Are there other options besides these two to consider?

Thanks.

engineerbrian · Nov 13, 2017

I've been lucky enough to shoot both of the guns you mentioned. The only down side i can say from my limited exposure to the American 180 is that loading the drum sucked. I'd rather load a bunch of BX25 mags for a 10/22.

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

I own both. The American 180 will be cheaper to buy. Probably $8K+/- less. The 180 is a ton of fun to shoot, but it can also be very frustrating. Mags take a few minutes to load. And they can be accidentally emptied when removed from the gun if you don't shut off the winder. The Norrell 10/22 is also lots of fun. Its pretty simple and just needs regular cleaning. I shoot the 10/22 a lot more. Its one of my goto guns now to bring to every FA shoot.

Doctor_M · Nov 13, 2017

Thanks to you both... the one thing I was worried about with the American was finding magazines... not like you can just stroll across state lines into any old store and pick one up from the shelf. Are they semi-readily available back in America, or are they hen's teeth?

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

engineerbrian said:
I'd rather load a bunch of BX25 mags for a 10/22.

Mine likes the cheaper clear Champion Mags better than BX25s. Its also nice to be able see how many rounds are left in the stack.

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

Doctor_M said:
Thanks to you both... the one thing I was worried about with the American was finding magazines... not like you can just stroll across state lines into any old store and pick one up from the shelf. Are they semi-readily available back in America, or are they hen's teeth?

You can get them from Val at E&L. He's very nice and equally helpful. He sells and services everything related to the AM180.

Doctor_M · Nov 13, 2017

AWESOME. Thank you rsideout! You are always a wealth of information regarding anything Class III. Appreciate it!

Ecestu · Nov 13, 2017

Doctor_M said:
AWESOME. Thank you rsideout! You are always a wealth of information regarding anything Class III. Appreciate it!

If you can find it, a subcal kit on top of an M-11/9mm is much cheaper than the other alternatives. I've had great luck with butler creek mags and the BDM drum, but I have yet to get the BX mags to feed at all.

MigraineMan · Nov 13, 2017

Ecestu said:
If you can find it, a subcal kit on top of an M-11/9mm is much cheaper than the other alternatives. I've had great luck with butler creek mags and the BDM drum, but I have yet to get the BX mags to feed at all.

Good god.

I want to write my name in the snow with that.

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

Ecestu said:
If you can find it, a subcal kit on top of an M-11/9mm is much cheaper than the other alternatives. I've had great luck with butler creek mags and the BDM drum, but I have yet to get the BX mags to feed at all.

Is that a Fleming .22 upper on your M11/9? I've got one that fits on an M11A1 but it doesn't run very well.

ericoak · Nov 13, 2017

Is this your first one? If so, I would suggest something other than .22LR.

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

ericoak said:
Is this your first one? If so, I would suggest something other than .22LR.

No, he has a few "larger" FA toys.

rob-cubed · Nov 13, 2017

I'm going to second the .22 conversion on a MAC11/9. Maybe because it's all I can afford--plus 9mm is still cheaper than rifle rounds and it's great to have both options? Really, shooting reactive targets at shorter range makes the most out of your giggle switch. 9mm is perfect for that.

If I had the cash, I'd go for a converted (slightly cheaper) AR lower and a .22 upper. But, the daughter needs to go to college...

I guess I don't get the math or utility of owning a .22-only FA when you can swap uppers around. It's just so damn expensive to play in the game to begin with.

Ecestu · Nov 13, 2017

rsideout said:
Is that a Fleming .22 upper on your M11/9? I've got one that fits on an M11A1 but it doesn't run very well.

Yep. I feel your pain, because it definitely did its fair share of collecting dust when I didn't feel like tweaking it for a few years. I finally got back into it, and with all of the internet tips that are floating around, I was finally able to get it running. Then I overtweaked it, and it went back on the shelf again. We have a love/hate relationship...

songlaw · Nov 13, 2017

I miss that carnival game in Ocean City

What are you gonna do with it? Open up a carnie game where you shoot out the red star from the paper target and win a stuffed animal?

Doctor_M · Nov 13, 2017

Hadn't thought about a conversion for my M-11... that might be an option to consider. Anyone out there still actively producing them?

erwos · Nov 13, 2017

Doctor_M said:
Hadn't thought about a conversion for my M-11... that might be an option to consider. Anyone out there still actively producing them?

Lage has a conversion kit, it seems to be popular to use in your stock 9mm upper (which everyone has generally replaced with a MAX of some sort). Magazines will be tricky to obtain, though.

rsideout · Nov 13, 2017

erwos said:
Lage has a conversion kit, it seems to be popular to use in your stock 9mm upper (which everyone has generally replaced with a MAX of some sort). Magazines will be tricky to obtain, though.

Yes, LAGE would be your best option for the M11. They offer 40 rd mags.

There are also economical .22 FA options for the M16. Economical I guess, if you already own an M16. They are also one of the more reliable .22 FA platforms.

Enfield303 · Nov 13, 2017

I had an American 180 for a few years but probably only ever shot it five times. The magazines were a pain to load and mine just wasn't very reliable. I could only get through a few rounds without a jam, never a full magazine. When it did work it was a lot of fun and cheap to shoot but I eventually sold it and bought something I could get more use out of. I will second rsideout that E &L is the place for American 180 accessories. Good luck with your search.

IMBLITZVT · Nov 14, 2017

The AM180 is truly awesome when working well. Just nothing to compare. I think 2A sales had one for sale a little while ago and might still have one.

However for the money, I think its hard to beat the M11 lage 22LR conversion. It works well. 40rd mags that are easy to load with a loading machine. This is critical in enjoying a 22LR MG as you really don't want to load by hand. There are at least two loaders for the lage mags. Plus you end up with a M11 which is one of the MGs to have anyway!

The 10/22s are nice but they sure aren't cheap.

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