Possible zeroing mistake

pilot25 · Jul 18, 2018

I have a red dot and iron sights on a piston rifle. I have used both together and separately. Both were zeroed in separately. Took it out to the range last week and then cleaned it the next day. Without thinking I took off the front iron sight and cleaned the area under it. The piston makes a pretty big mess right where the front iron sight is.

Will I need to re-zero the darn thing? I made this mistake in the past with the red dot and that thing was way off when I put it back on. I haven't touched it since. Can't believe I made the same stupid mistake. However, it seems like the front iron sight only has a few adjustment notches vs virtually infinite with the red dot.

Guess I shouldn't rely on it till I shoot it again.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 18, 2018

Answered your own question .

Ski169 · Jul 18, 2018

I know with milspec 1913 rails, theoretically you are supposed to be able to reattach optics or sight at the same location with minimal loss of zero. As with anything, it’s always a good idea to verify or check after reinstallation. So I would check or rezero.

pilot25 · Jul 19, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Answered your own question .

I was thinking that right after I wrote it!!

Do most people still use backup sights? I was thinking of just removing them as the red dot battery is good for 3+ years. Maybe even thinking of going with a holo sight if I end up getting a second rifle or ideally an AR pistol build.

Major03 · Jul 19, 2018

iron sights do not require batteries...just saying. Sure an AimPoint micro will last 3-5 years on a battery...so maybe they're redundant...but I like having a map in my car as well as a phone with a GPS.

Confirm zero.

bkuether · Jul 19, 2018

pilot25 said:
I was thinking that right after I wrote it!!

Do most people still use backup sights? I was thinking of just removing them as the red dot battery is good for 3+ years. Maybe even thinking of going with a holo sight if I end up getting a second rifle or ideally an AR pistol build.

I still use my iron / backup sights exclusively. I tried a red dot, and it just ate the entire center to the point I couldn't really hit the bulls eye effectively.

BUT..........

Every year it gets harder and harder to see my orange dots (I paste them on to the target).

5 years ago I could just barely see the small ones at 50
1 year ago, I started having trouble seeing the medium ones at 50

Unfortunately, the larger dots allow too much room for the sight to find absolute center, and my groups have gone to crap.

I did this about 3 years ago at 50... Of course the longer sight distance and longer barrel "matter".

benton0311 · Jul 19, 2018

Did you take both the iron sight and the optic off? If not and they are absolute co-witness, just check that the sights still line up with the optic that wasn't removed and is still zeroed. Then adjust the irons to match the optic if needed. The opposite works too when you remove the optic and leave the irons alone. You'd still need to confirm zero at some point but it will be really close if not spot on.

jrumann59 · Jul 19, 2018

Major03 said:
iron sights do not require batteries...just saying. Sure an AimPoint micro will last 3-5 years on a battery...so maybe they're redundant...but I like having a map in my car as well as a phone with a GPS.

Confirm zero.

This

I do not own an aimpoint. But regardless I battery check all my optics about every 30 days if I keep a battery in it. I will not trust my life on anything's advertised battery life, remember Murphy's Law.

TheBulge · Jul 19, 2018

The iron sight are the back up to the red dot, and the red dot is zeroed?

I would just verify the BUIS are co-witnessed to the red dot and confirm the BUIS zero next time I got a chance.

Magnumite · Jul 19, 2018

It is also important to remount the optic or sights the same way as originally installed for zero. Example, I push all my sights forward in the rail cuts, gradually tightening while pushing forward and perpendicular to the bore. Removal and reinstallation typically is right on zero and rarely needs more than a click or two to re-zero. Using the checks mentioned in previous posts, this is typically a post-mount check procedure I use to look for error in the mounts and procedure before the initial range trip.

pilot25 · Jul 19, 2018

benton0311 said:
Did you take both the iron sight and the optic off? If not and they are absolute co-witness, just check that the sights still line up with the optic that wasn't removed and is still zeroed. Then adjust the irons to match the optic if needed. The opposite works too when you remove the optic and leave the irons alone. You'd still need to confirm zero at some point but it will be really close if not spot on.

Is that what “lollipoping” is? I was told to zero them separately. I don’t know why as the dot sits right on top of the iron sight. I readjusted it that way for now till I get to the range again.

Thanks for the replies everyone...

outrider58 · Jul 19, 2018

TheBulge said:
The iron sight are the back up to the red dot, and the red dot is zeroed?

I would just verify the BUIS are co-witnessed to the red dot and confirm the BUIS zero next time I got a chance.

X100

kohburn · Jul 19, 2018

pilot25 said:
Is that what “lollipoping” is? I was told to zero them separately. I don’t know why as the dot sits right on top of the iron sight. I readjusted it that way for now till I get to the range again.

Thanks for the replies everyone...

I normally zero irons then lollipop the red dot onto the front sight post (called so because of appearance)

ComeGet · Jul 19, 2018

Good info here -

https://www.at3tactical.com/blogs/news/co-witness-explained-absolute-vs-lower-1-3-cowitness-on-ar-s

Bountied · Jul 19, 2018

kohburn said:
I normally zero irons then lollipop the red dot onto the front sight post (called so because of appearance)

This is what I do. Haven't had any issues hitting steel at 200yds.

Magnumite · Jul 19, 2018

I zero separately if the irons are in the bottom 1/3 of the red dot field of view. This is mainly because if the rear sight is down one automatically wants to center the dot in the field of view. If it is an absolute cowitness (all sighting in center of dot lense) I do as others above have directed.

outrider58 · Jul 19, 2018

Bountied said:
This is what I do. Haven't had any issues hitting steel at 200yds.

I usually do the reverse. For me, it's just easier to crank on the front post while I'm in my shop, rather than in the field. Lasers, I lollypop.

Bountied · Jul 19, 2018

outrider58 said:
I usually do the reverse. For me, it's just easier to crank on the front post while I'm in my shop, rather than in the field. Lasers, I lollypop.

Either way works for me, I just did a red dot to irons that were already zeroed, recently. I switched from a scope to a red dot. If I have to swap a front or rear sight I'll zero them to the zeroed red dot. I do a half lollipop I guess split the dot 50/50 with the front post.

pilot25 · Jul 20, 2018

ComeGet said:
Good info here -

https://www.at3tactical.com/blogs/news/co-witness-explained-absolute-vs-lower-1-3-cowitness-on-ar-s

Really good article. Thank you.

pilot25 · Jul 24, 2018

Got lucky. Took it to the range yesterday and all was sighted perfectly.

Possible zeroing mistake

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