Quick question, do you have to inform you are carrying?

This is from the statute, not an app or a non authoritative site like usacarry or handgunlaw.

Those sites and apps are good, but not always perfect as illustrated earlier

https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/7-2509.04.html

There is no ambiguity here. You must inform if its an investigatory (non consensual) stop.

Out of respect for LE, I always inform even if it's a casual encounter.
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joppaj said:

It does note "in flux".

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That hasn't been in flux for over four year. It is in DC code since at least 2014.

USA carry has a fair amount errors and lots of state info is old or very old.

The duty to inform it is not from wrenn/grace (may issue to shall issue) 15 months ago, but from the time DC went from "no issue" to "may issue" in 2014.

I think a couple of years ago I dropped them a couple of notes on the ballistic test requirement being repealed as well as other changes in about 2013, and they never updated

swinokur said:

There is no ambiguity here. You must inform if its an investigatory (non consensual) stop.

Out of respect for LE, I always inform even if it's a casual encounter.
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That is the correct info combined with good subjective advice.

I would leave out the "consensual"/"non consensual' since you may have been the one who called the cops, say you get in vehicle accident, and you are the one who called cops-- but many cops may still interpret that as investigative and a stop since you really can't just take off while they are investigating.

Your note on the courtesy is important.

DC has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into recognize even the most basic civil liberties and has shown it will shred the Second Amendment if able.

But DC gun law history and the disgusting abuse of the rights of the citizenry in that respect isn't the fault of that cop. nor is it his her fault that likely his/her entire experience with people and guns is a binary:
A) LEO =good armed person
B) Any ohter armed person= criminal, major danger.

It is pretty much a certainty that if you are a DC CCL holder who is interacting with a cop, that you are the officer's very first ever encounter with a legally armed civilian. . Over the next ten years essentially every CCL stop will be totally new to the cop stopping you and he/she is also probably someone with a family to get home to.

So I agree in virtually any interaction including many where you do not have to notify by the letter of the law, you still should. And you should also always, armed or not, but especially if armed, if stopped be polite, turn on your dome light, get your driver's licence, reg, proof of insurance, and if carrying and you have time, CCL and firearm registration ready so you are not lurching around when he is standing next to your door. Keep your hands visible, and ask if it ok of you need to reach anywhere. Be friendly and cooperative.

Also don't use the word "gun." Just hand your documents over and say something like: "Good evening officer, here are my documents, you will see a DC CCL and I do have a legally carried firearm inside the waistband at 4 o'clock. Let me know what you would like me to do."

Could he/she still be an a$$, disarm you and cuff you and at the end leave you in front of dozens of on lookers holding up their smartphones and videoing you as as you try and deal with a pistol he has tossed along with your ammo on your passenger seat? Yes. Under that DC code it looks like he/she could. What do you do if he ask for an unrelated "cooperation" like a search of your car which you would normally politely should otherwise always refuse? I don't know what I would do about that.

My only reason for the use of consensual vs non consensual was to delineate between an investigatory stop (even if you called) and a casual encounter where you are not being detained.

swinokur said:

My only reason for the use of consensual vs non consensual was to delineate between an investigatory stop (even if you called) and a casual encounter where you are not being detained.

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Oh I am sure we are 100% on the same page. Just kind of pointing out some of the good reason to be as cooperative as you can be.

If not armed I would be still be mindful of things to make the cop safe but certainly fully insist on my rights more.

I'm curious, what would you do if stopped, you tell them you have a CLL and are armed, they are reasonable about that but then ask to search the car? Normally I would be very firm in a "no" on that, just as I would not discuss where I am coming from and going if asked, but not so sure what I would do if armed (I don't know maybe the case law establishes they may do a full search just based on you legally carrying). The do have a right to cuff you and pat you down, maybe fully search your person if armed even with a CCL). Do you know if the case law allows them to search the entire vehicle based on CCL?

Not sure about DC law but IIRC there have been other cases where the mere presence of a legally possessed firearm is not PC for a vehicle search. I know Terry allows a pat down for weapons. If the officer insists I would not resist but tell him I do not consent to a search and make sure I have witnesses to my statement.

Just my .02 however and IANAL

I have been pulled over twice since having my permit. The first time I told the DOT officer I had a permit and asked how he would like to proceed, he didn't seem to care and asked for my permit then came back and told me to have a nice day.

The second time a MSP officer pulled me over for speeding, once again I offered the info and we had a conversation I did not enjoy. He questioned whether I was working or not and then proceeded to tell me that CCW holders think they can do whatever they want because of the way the world is today.... I said thank you for my ticket and went on my way.

I now have my non restricted permit and will not divulge unless asked. Also, they cannot see if you have a permit unless they do a deep background check, a usual background check when pulled over does not reveal if you have a permit or not or so I am told.

Many, many years ago, a co-worker had a permit because as the owner, he made nightly deposits from a popular restaurant. His story was he was pulled over, two LEO came out of the cruiser, weapons drawn, approached, "hands up, out of the car, hands on hood", because the radio feedback revealed he had a concealed cary for business. No firearm was on or about his person/vehicle at the time.

I know this story is inflammatory. Mea Culpa.

I relay the story but cannot attest to its voracity, though my memory of the storytelling event is clear as a bell. It was *at least* 20 years ago in Md.

Judge as you will.

I got a speeding ticket in Wyoming last month, my first speeding ticket ever. I had a 357 IWB that I totally forgot about and never mentioned during the stop. No problems at all. After he gave me the ticket, the officer mentioned the MD flag crab sticker and said he had one on his truck. I told him I was from Baltimore and he said he grew up in monkey county. Still gave me the ticket though...

mumfrey said:

In DC you do, it's the law. In MD, you don't have to inform.

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Yes in DC you must inform when stopped/detained by police.


In Maryland, you don't have to inform because most people aren't even allowed to carry guns there--so its a non-issue. Although wouldn't surprise me if they changed the law to must-inform.

crfakm4 said:

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I now have my non restricted permit and will not divulge unless asked. Also, they cannot see if you have a permit unless they do a deep background check, a usual background check when pulled over does not reveal if you have a permit or not or so I am told.

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Is this a non-restricted MARYLAND permit? if you're able to, can you tell me how you obtained that? I had a restricted (MARYLAND) one for 15 years,couldn't find a way to get a non restricted one

In DC you are required by statute to inform if you are CCW

Welcome to....
Oops, another one.

Dave MP said:

Welcome to....
Oops, another one.

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???

MDbiker said:

I'm posting in the DC forum so I thought it would be assumed I was asking about being stopped in DC.

But from what I'm gathering, DC rules don't state we MUST let them know we carrying correct

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Gathering from whom? DC is a duty to inform jurisdiction and the DC rules (law) says you must..

swinokur said:

url]https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/7-2509.04.html[/url]

There is no ambiguity here. You must inform if its an investigatory (non consensual) stop.

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A question came up in my class near two years ago about police at traffic accidents.

it came up for me a few months ago when I was a passenger in a friends car that got rear ended : Are police at traffic accident scene always consensual? What if the other party called the cops? what if a third party called? What if you are a third party witness and staying in case police may want to interview you?

The issue for me was sharp since the accident was just a block away from the legal side of the White House complex (ie legal). My inclination to err on caution and volunteer that I was carrying,m it was seriously tempered by the likelihood of a very large and public response to telling the cop I had a gun.

Ultimately what I decided was to tell my friend, who knew I was carrying, of course I would be happy to talk to the insurance investigators, adn to the cops if they asked, but that I was going to step out and go stand on the sidewalk rather than interact with them in any way.

As it is the cops were more interested in having the two parties change info and get rolling, so it was a happy ending.

But since minor traffic accidents with people texting are increasing, and in a urban environment with cop's reaction being unpredictable, and some number likely to get dramatic, it would be interesting if we can get some more black and white as to the precise thresholds for investigative stops.

heck what they need to do is reach out the AK about sending a couple of Troopers to teach the cops in DC how they work and interact with joe public since in AK you can ccw all the time with no permit needed at all. I am sure the AK troopers might have a few stories and experiences on how they do traffic stops when everyone is armed as well.

rascal said:

Gathering from whom? DC is a duty to inform jurisdiction and the DC rules (law) says you must..

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You do know I asked this question and got my answer a year ago.......right?

I was lit up on a small dark road in Carroll county, by CC Sheriff's dept. Was about 10pm. I was busy looking for eye glow when I passed the cop. I ws speeding, not break neck but above the posted limit. As soon as he pulled out and hit lights, I pulled over, shut off Jeep, turned interior lights on, window was already down so I put both hands on wheel as he approached. He asked if I knew why he pulled me over, I replied, " I was more concerned watching for eyes on the shoulder than my speedo, so I assume that's why, I am a W&C permit holder" he took about half a step back and asked if I was carrying, if so where. I told him "Right hip, all my IDs are left rear pocket" he told me to not reach for anything with right hand, and slowly get my ID with left. I did as he asked, give him all usual stuff, also my W&C. Turned into a good encounter, he asked how I got an unrestricted, I told him about the theat at gunpoint. Ended up with a warning, also an advisement some LEOs would want to remove me from vehicle and take control of firearm fr their own comfort. He was a good guy.

I will ALWAYS advise I have a W&C when I have any encounter with LEOs.

MDbiker said:

You do know I asked this question and got my answer a year ago.......right?

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And, with all respect, do you realize you posted on this thread, immediately before my comment, on May 23, 2019, putting it at the top of the current commented thread list, on the same day as my comment?