Gun Violence Restraining Order?

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

Not a novel concept (recently enacted in CA) but maybe worthy of discussion more broadly. Devil’s in the details but this could be a means to prevent some of these premeditated attacks. Interested in thoughts from the group.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/

rseymorejr · Feb 18, 2018

Just scanning through the article I'm thinking this may have possibilities. The important thing, for me, is that nobody's rights are violated without due process. A court hearing where evidence must be presented and the person allowed to defend themselves would be important. Also any finding in favor of the restraining order should be accompanied by a visit to a psychiatric hospital. Any found to be bringing one of theses restraining order cases maliciously should face jail time too.

rgramjet · Feb 18, 2018

Its already in MD.

Happened to someone I know. A "marraige counselor" interpreted something he did as "abusive", which it wasnt in any way.

Few days later, the Sherrifs Dept is loading his several guns into the back of their car. Wouldnt even case them when he requested.

He got them all back and there were lawsuits.

danb · Feb 18, 2018

I am not necessarily opposed to this, but this would not have stopped any of the mass murders or any of the 340 murders in Baltimore.

Florida has a process where the mass murderer could have been involuntarily committed, and nearly everyone from friends and family to law enforcement and the FBI dropped the ball.

An ******* determined to go out in a blaze of glory can still make bombs, rent trucks, etc. These assholes want to go out in infamy so they will simply choose something with the biggest shock value.

K31 · Feb 18, 2018

How does this stop guns from becoming violent?

GuitarmanNick · Feb 18, 2018

I have a friend that had his weapons confiscated because his girlfriend claimed he was abusive and got a restraining order. The fact is that he was the victim of the abuse and on several occasions she had attacked him in public for no good reason in front of witnesses. Once she hit him in the face with a beer bottle for speaking to a female client(he owns his own business) about a project. She was very insecure and extremely jealous.
He is still trying to get his guns back more than a year later.
She stole all of his property when she moved out of HIS house!
When they went to court for the custody hearing, her own sister was there to testify on my friend's behalf because she knew her nephews would be neglected by their mother if she got full custody. She decided to agree to joint custody and not seek child support when she saw her sister on my friend's side.
The whole restraining order law in Maryland is ridiculous and does not allow for the accused to answer charges that in many cases, are false and used only to allow theft of property and disarming the innocent!

kalister1 · Feb 18, 2018

Most of them surrender when an armed LEO shows up. The animal in Florida wants to plead guilty IF DEATH is taken off the table.
What we need is to drop them ASAP. Shoot first, ask questions later. When they know they will die on the spot, maybe something will change?

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

rgramjet said:
Its already in MD.

Happened to someone I know. A "marraige counselor" interpreted something he did as "abusive", which it wasnt in any way.

Few days later, the Sherrifs Dept is loading his several guns into the back of their car. Wouldnt even case them when he requested.

He got them all back and there were lawsuits.

That’s unacceptable. But, also not consistent with what, by my reading, French has proposed. As I wrote, the details of how this would be implemented are obviously quite important.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

danb said:
I am not necessarily opposed to this, but this would not have stopped any of the mass murders or any of the 340 murders in Baltimore.

Florida has a process where the mass murderer could have been involuntarily committed, and nearly everyone from friends and family to law enforcement and the FBI dropped the ball.

An ******* determined to go out in a blaze of glory can still make bombs, rent trucks, etc. These assholes want to go out in infamy so they will simply choose something with the biggest shock value.

I didn’t mean to imply it’s a panacea. It seems to me that it could make a difference in some situations and if due process is made paramount in how it’s implemented then it’s worth considering.

For the record, I think the immediate step that should occur is adding armed security to schools as this is likely to do more to eliminate the threat than anything else I’ve heard proposed.

K31 · Feb 18, 2018

The author's description of some of the "signals" given off by potential mass murders reminds me of the watch list of behaviors that got presented at a workplace of mine a few years ago.

Basically, if you want to own guns, watch the History Channel, crime shows, fervently believe in something (you know, Jesus, The Constitution is the law of the land) then you are worthy of being taken away for re-education, while your firearms are piled into a cruiser and left on the floor of the basement of the police station gathering rust until you spend $10K on lawyers to force the police to return them.

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

GuitarmanNick said:
The whole restraining order law in Maryland is ridiculous...

The list of ridiculous Maryland laws is quite lengthy. I have no confidence that MD would implement a GVRO in a way that most of us would consider fair but the concept is worth discussing. I say that because we can’t allow the antis to consume all of the oxygen in the room and need to have something constructive to offer (incl e.g. arming teachers, securing schools, emphasizing importance of family and faith).

NoMoreTreadingOnUs · Feb 18, 2018

K31 said:
The author's description of some of the "signals" given off by potential mass murders reminds me of the watch list of behaviors that got presented at a workplace of mine a few years ago.

Basically, if you want to own guns, watch the History Channel, crime shows, fervently believe in something (you know, Jesus, The Constitution is the law of the land) then you are worthy of being taken away for re-education, while your firearms are piled into a cruiser and left on the floor of the basement of the police station gathering rust until you spend $10K on lawyers to force the police to return them.

Again, the Devil’s in the details. Laws can be written unambiguously when there’s a will to do so.

teratos · Feb 18, 2018

IF the government would stand behind the 2A, I think the vast majority of people would be in favor of this and universal background checks. Since confiscation seems to be the left's only solution, there can be no discussion on anything.

iH8DemLibz · Feb 18, 2018

Is this another gun grabbing thread that's meant to look like a we need to do "Something" thread?

K31 · Feb 18, 2018

NoMoreTreadingOnUs said:
Again, the Devil’s in the details. Laws can be written unambiguously when there’s a will to do so.

You'd think so wouldn't you? But when "navigable waters" become "anything that can float a rubber duck". And "interstate commerce" becomes, "Hey, you're in a hotel so you probably came from out of state". Then it doesn't make much difference.

Never mind that our overlords have any interest in writing a law favorable to our rights or, if history is any judge, writing any law that can be interpreted by a law person short of violating it and going to court.

K31 · Feb 18, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Is this another gun grabbing thread that's meant to look like a we need to do "Something" thread?

Nail, hit on head, have you.

Ranchero50 · Feb 18, 2018

Hello...

iH8DemLibz said:
Is this another gun grabbing thread that's meant to look like a we need to do "Something" thread?

Absolutely. Says nothing about Knife Violence Restraining Order or Hammer Violence Restraining Order. It's just another feel good lots of words so your on the page longer story so I get advertising money ploy. What a bunch of baloney.

OP, you are being played by the liberals if you aren't one yourself. Try to not propagate their falsehoods. :mad54:

danb · Feb 18, 2018

teratos said:
IF the government would stand behind the 2A, I think the vast majority of people would be in favor of this and universal background checks. Since confiscation seems to be the left's only solution, there can be no discussion on anything.

Fredcohunter · Feb 18, 2018

teratos said:
IF the government would stand behind the 2A, I think the vast majority of people would be in favor of this and universal background checks. Since confiscation seems to be the left's only solution, there can be no discussion on anything.

Sadly this hits the nail on the head.

danb · Feb 18, 2018

Fredcohunter said:
Sadly this hits the nail on the head.

But there is a certain logic to this. Just like only Nixon can go to China, and only Trump can offer amnesty to 1.8 million DACA people, only when we have solid strict scrutiny and constitutional enforcement can we discuss what evidence and due process looks like for removing gun rights.

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