Do we have a Due Process case on CCWs?

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  • Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    After reading the threads on the permit hearings, I'm wondering if we don't have a defensible Due Process case. It seems that the MSP is acting prejudicially based on the wealth and political connections of the applicant, the Review Board is dysfunctional, and some requests for hearings are getting spiked.

    I'm definitely not an attorney, but it seems that we might have a case here.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603

    How much and why?

    Class action? More than one person is being effected here, the offenses are numerous and pretty obvious. I (no offense intended) understand why it's so prohibitively expensive to right a wrong.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    So what would it take for us to go before District Court??:confused:

    First step would be a class of folks that have been denied by MSP, appealed to the HPRB, and had the denial upheld.

    Those folks would have to appeal their cases to a county circuit court, and the denial upheld there at which point they can either go the Wollard route (Federal District Court), or the state route to the State Court of Special Appeals.

    I'm not sure on class action suit at the county circuit court level, but any ruling at the COSA would be binding on everyone in the State of MD. Likewise, Federal District Court of MD would apply to all in MD, and has a further appeals route.

    Why are these so expensive?

    Discovery.
    Depositions of all involved.
    Official transcription of the HPRB hearing minutes.

    Those are the big money sucks, and take up the most time.

    Due process suits have yet to be brought with regards to wear and carry permits, it would be an interesting route to take.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    I think a big part would be to get several hundred people to apply, with the process monitored. This will give the documentation to blast the MSP line about "94% approval" out of the water.
     

    jeffie7

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 14, 2015
    6,086
    Loudoun County
    I think a big part would be to get several hundred people to apply, with the process monitored. This will give the documentation to blast the MSP line about "94% approval" out of the water.

    Question is does anyone on the MSP side care what the percentages are? Only we care because it's just a random number which is total ********. I wonder if hogan is ignorant about the subject. He could honestly believe those numbers are true. I don't think he's dug into anything gun wise since it hasn't been on his plan. Hopefully that's the case and when he sees the ******** that is going on...

    He's all about breaking down walls and doing things correctly. Currently the process imo is illegal.

    If a lawsuit was an option. What would it cost?
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    I think a big part would be to get several hundred people to apply, with the process monitored. This will give the documentation to blast the MSP line about "94% approval" out of the water.

    That's an awful expensive "I told ya so".
     

    Engine4

    Curmudgeon
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2012
    6,983
    I think a big part would be to get several hundred people to apply, with the process monitored. This will give the documentation to blast the MSP line about "94% approval" out of the water.

    This is why I suggested the weekend seminar.
     

    Z_Man

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2014
    2,698
    Harford County
    so what we need to do.

    1. raise money for legal fund
    2. put together a large economical MD CCW training class for a large number of MDS members to take.
    3. find a way to economically fingerprint and apply for MD CCW, en mass.
    4. have everyone with the same justification for G&S
    5. play out the entire review process
    6. determine who is approved, and who is not, and why (I would wager there is some random, we like you better crap at the HPRB)
    7. proceed to challenging the process.


    personally, I don't even think of applying (training etc) due to the cost of time and money for a permit I feel I have a 50/50 shot at getting after a board review. I have a feeling there are hundreds in the same boat.

    we need to organize a process to get a bunch of "normal folks" through the process with as little individual burden as we can. It is the only way we can meaningfully demonstrate the system is broken... as long as that 95% approval rate number keeps coming up... it will be easy for leadership in the state to dismiss.
     

    jeffie7

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 14, 2015
    6,086
    Loudoun County
    I don't have the time when I personally think my odds of getting it outside of business reason is maybe 10%

    If we did a mass training thing I would consider it.

    Would be interesting if everyone used the same reasons and had the exact same speach at the hearing if some would get over turned and others not.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    First step would be a class of folks that have been denied by MSP, appealed to the HPRB, and had the denial upheld.

    Those folks would have to appeal their cases to a county circuit court, and the denial upheld there at which point they can either go the Wollard route (Federal District Court), or the state route to the State Court of Special Appeals.

    I'm not sure on class action suit at the county circuit court level, but any ruling at the COSA would be binding on everyone in the State of MD. Likewise, Federal District Court of MD would apply to all in MD, and has a further appeals route.

    Why are these so expensive?

    Discovery.
    Depositions of all involved.
    Official transcription of the HPRB hearing minutes.

    Those are the big money sucks, and take up the most time.

    Due process suits have yet to be brought with regards to wear and carry permits, it would be an interesting route to take.



    We can't win until we lose. Irony yes?
     

    Overboost44

    6th gear
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 10, 2013
    6,619
    Kent Island
    I should have posted this here instead of in the HPRB thread.

    I would like to join in on this fight to exercise my right, but I do not own a business. I only want to keep myself safe and protect my wife and children. At this point, I know there is no reason for me (and many in my position) to submit an application. I know there was a discussion where there would be mass applicants. Right now I am thinking this would just clog up the system. Am I correct?

    Although any of us could be mugged/robbed/assaulted at any time, my weekly trips to BC,PG are a bit less of a threat to my safety than those that live and work there...at least according to the MSP and the board. This almost becomes an equal rights issue at some point.
     

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