HB 786 Text Interpretation ?

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    5-204.1 (A) on P3 line 23 states :
    " THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A TRANSFER : "

    And subsequently lists (1) thru (9) , on remainder of P 3, all of P4 , and first line of P 5 .


    When 5-204.1 (A) refers to " THIS SECTION " , what exactly does that include as not applying to ?

    The remainder of 5-204.1 , sections (B) thru (G) ?

    The entirety of 5-204 ?

    Something else ?
     

    Clovis

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 1, 2011
    1,408
    Centreville
    I "think" (A) only means everything delineated in the section. (B) starts a new section regarding how transfers are to be conducted. But it is MGA.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I "think" (A) only means everything delineated in the section. (B) starts a new section regarding how transfers are to be conducted. But it is MGA.

    Yes, that is how laws and regulations are read.

    Anything in a part, only applies to parts under that.

    So (A), applies to (A)(1), (A)(2), (A)(3), etc, but does not apply to anything in (B) or (C).

    Of course, sometimes, it takes some work to make sure the people applying the laws and regulations to actually follow that.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    I "think" (A) only means everything delineated in the section. (B) starts a new section regarding how transfers are to be conducted. But it is MGA.

    Correct, section (A) covers section (A), and unless expressly mentioned, no other section has any affect on that section.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I'm usually a fair hand at interpreting Maryland Bills and Statutes , but I'm having a hard time making any logical sense of 5-204.1. ( Not the logic of the whole concept , but the internal logic of the language .)

    (A) Lays out a list of exceptions , but I can't really see what persons of those catagories are being excepted From ?

    If A is viewed in a total vacuum , it would seem to be rendered totally moot by the imeadately following (B) and (C) . If the Exceptions enumberated in ( A) were to apply to the remainder of 5-204.1 , it would have internal logic .

    I know the MGA membership is largely wacky , but I would expect the wonks in DLS to create Bill Language that would be facially compatible .
     

    DivingDriver

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 14, 2016
    1,514
    Nanjemoy MD
    I'm usually a fair hand at interpreting Maryland Bills and Statutes , but I'm having a hard time making any logical sense of 5-204.1. ( Not the logic of the whole concept , but the internal logic of the language .)

    (A) Lays out a list of exceptions , but I can't really see what persons of those catagories are being excepted From ?

    If A is viewed in a total vacuum , it would seem to be rendered totally moot by the imeadately following (B) and (C) . If the Exceptions enumberated in ( A) were to apply to the remainder of 5-204.1 , it would have internal logic .

    I know the MGA membership is largely wacky , but I would expect the wonks in DLS to create Bill Language that would be facially compatible .

    Just spit my rum out when I read that!!! Really, you expect them to make any since in anything they do? :)
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Not sense in their ideas and concepts . I do expect the staff at DLS to take the wacky ideas , and draft them to be internally consistent .
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Section 5-204.1 starts with:

    5–204.1.
    23 (A) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A TRANSFER:


    So, the question ends up being, what does "section" mean. Section means all of section 5-204.1. So, the restrictions in (B), (C), etc. of section 5-204.1 do not apply to those people set forth in section 5-204.1(A).
     

    buellsfurn

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 1, 2015
    5,951
    southern end of Maryland
    Section 5-204.1 starts with:

    5–204.1.
    23 (A) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A TRANSFER:


    So, the question ends up being, what does "section" mean. Section means all of section 5-204.1. So, the restrictions in (B), (C), etc. of section 5-204.1 do not apply to those people set forth in section 5-204.1(A).

    hello my name is Darryl this is my brother Darryl and my other brother Darryl
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Ah Ha !

    That would indeed make sense . ( Internal consistency & internal logic , the whole premise is still bogus .)
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Ah Ha !

    That would indeed make sense . ( Internal consistency & internal logic , the whole premise is still bogus .)

    I disagree with almost all of the firearms laws in Maryland. No idea what I even agree with. Might agree with the law that states loaded firearms must be locked up when children are in the house. Thing is, that law is just common sense. Either people are going to have common sense or they aren't.

    Today, my little one made it to the kitchen table while we had guests in the house. She climbed up on a chair and picked up a knife off the table while she was standing on the chair. I caught her pretty quick and got it out of her hand. Common sense would have told me to keep that knife off the table while it wasn't being supervised, to watch my kid, etc. Luckily, common sense caught up to me before anything bad happened with that knife. Think she had it for all of 2 seconds before I got to it. Just glad I am not a criminal. Then again, maybe that is child endangerment. Guess I need to lock up the chainsaws and other lawn tools because the 12 year old and 10 year old can probably start them if they try hard enough.

    Anyway, I digress. Just too many laws.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    "This section" refers only to Section 5-204.1.

    This bill makes no sense and is way too complicated.

    Unlike the other sections contained in the bill, Section 5-204.3 does not contain an exception to the 30-day waiting period for multiple purchases of curio or relic firearms, whether by 03 FFLs or not.

    Section 5-204.1 provides that two 03 FFLs do not need to use a MD dealer or conduct a background check to transfer a C or R firearm and Section 5-207 does not require a LGQL to purchase a C or R firearm, but Section 5-204.2 does not make an exception to the 7-day waiting period and execution of the transfer record for C or R firearm transfers between two 03 FFLs. So, what are two 03 FFLs supposed to do?
     

    Crawls

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2011
    452
    Frederick, MD
    5-204.1.(C)(1)
    BEFORE A TRANSFER IS CONDUCTED, THE TRANSFEROR AND TRANSFEREE SHALL MEET JOINTLY WITH A LICENSEE AND REQUEST THAT THE LICENSEE FACILITATE THE TRANSFER.
    Question: If this is taken literally, wouldn't it effectively put an end to any non face to face sale such as an internet sale?

    5.204.1.(A)(9)(I)
    (This does not apply) AT AN ESTABLISHED SPORT SHOOTING RANGE OPERATED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LOCAL LAW OF THE JURISDICTION IN WHICH THE RANGE IS LOCATED;
    Comment: This sounds like a circular logic trap. For the LQL to not apply at a shooting range, the range has to be following this law that requires an HQL.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    5-204.1.(C)(1)
    BEFORE A TRANSFER IS CONDUCTED, THE TRANSFEROR AND TRANSFEREE SHALL MEET JOINTLY WITH A LICENSEE AND REQUEST THAT THE LICENSEE FACILITATE THE TRANSFER.
    Question: If this is taken literally, wouldn't it effectively put an end to any non face to face sale such as an internet sale?

    5.204.1.(A)(9)(I)
    (This does not apply) AT AN ESTABLISHED SPORT SHOOTING RANGE OPERATED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LOCAL LAW OF THE JURISDICTION IN WHICH THE RANGE IS LOCATED;
    Comment: This sounds like a circular logic trap. For the LQL to not apply at a shooting range, the range has to be following this law that requires an HQL.



    This is just common sense gun control. Kind of like comprehensive immigration reform.
     

    Crawls

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2011
    452
    Frederick, MD
    5-207(N)
    THE SECRETARY MAY ADOPT REGULATIONS TO CARRY OUT THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION.
    Comment: given the 54 testimonies against HB0092 Monday night, I think this would be rather unacceptable.
     

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