Too late to make an SBR?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • DimaK

    Member
    May 15, 2012
    88
    This may have been already addressed, if so, I apologize.

    I am in the process of waiting (day 30) for the MSP to not disapprove an AK variant rifle (SLR-107CR) that really needs to be SBR'ed to 12.5 inches. I assume I have at least 3 weeks to wait for it still. In that time I can set up the NFA trust.

    If I submit my Form 1 in mid May, is the new law likely to interfere with my approval process? Trust process has associated expense and effort and I don't not want to loose time and $$$ of this is a lost cause. I have currently only limited interest in getting other NFA items (like suppressors...) in the future.

    Thank for your opions!
     

    ducrider45

    Active Member
    Jul 29, 2011
    672
    Severn
    To the OP: no, Im in the proccess now. as long as the paperwork is started prior to October 1st, that should qualify as an order. all "documented orders" prior to Oct 1st are still legal and not subject to the new law.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    To the OP: no, Im in the proccess now. as long as the paperwork is started prior to October 1st, that should qualify as an order. all "documented orders" prior to Oct 1st are still legal and not subject to the new law.
    Only works for a form 4. If SBRs are in fact covered by the copycat and assault long gun tests, you are way too late for a form 1.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    What is the current approval time for a Form 1?
    Six months or more, same as a form 4. Remember that a form 1 is permission to manufacture. That's not a purchase order.

    If your FFL is an 07/SOT, you could always give it to them to do the work, write it up in their notebook, and then transfer the gun back to you on a form 4. You'd want some purchase order paperwork to go with this, but a copy of the form 4 may suffice.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Only works for a form 4. If SBRs are in fact covered by the copycat and assault long gun tests, you are way too late for a form 1.

    Assault LONG gun... SHORT Barrel Rifle... I would have to say you are ok there...

    I guess the copy cat is possible but not likely... a SBR is not a semi auto rifle... I know it sounds dumb but its not... different category recognized by the MD law...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I guess the copy cat is possible but not likely... a SBR is not a semi auto rifle... I know it sounds dumb but its not... different category recognized by the MD law...
    Depends on interpretation. After all, the definition of SBR in MD code includes the word "rifle". Again, let's get a formal AG opinion before declaring victory on this front.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Depends on interpretation. After all, the definition of SBR in MD code includes the word "rifle". Again, let's get a formal AG opinion before declaring victory on this front.

    Lets not... so long as MSP agrees and approves them, no need to kick sleeping dogs...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Lets not... so long as MSP agrees and approves them, no need to kick sleeping dogs...
    Do you want AG Frosh to issue a formal opinion that all post-October SBRs are illegal retroactively? Because that's a possible alternative. Gansler's not our buddy, but he's also not our enemy. Frosh just hates us.
     

    DimaK

    Member
    May 15, 2012
    88
    Some many replies, so little clarity - seems to be the rule in our state. If I were to try this, should I go the NFA trust route or directly via MSP? The $$$ loss would be less if I avoided the trust I guess.
     

    randyho

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 21, 2009
    1,544
    Not His Happy Place
    Some many replies, so little clarity - seems to be the rule in our state. If I were to try this, should I go the NFA trust route or directly via MSP? The $$$ loss would be less if I avoided the trust I guess.
    Given the Bloomberg language that passed CO, where handing someone, who has not been through a background check, an unloaded firearm is an illegal transfer; and where that person handing the weapon back w/o a background check is an illegal transfer, I think a trust is a better idea than ever. Because, I think we're gonna see that redefinition of transfers, and not too long from now.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Lets not... so long as MSP agrees and approves them, no need to kick sleeping dogs...

    Agree. If you go to court, they would need to hear that you were fingerprinted, photographed, and had a thorough background check done by the ATF before you got your $200 tax stamp. Gonna be REAL hard to prove criminal intent.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Do you want AG Frosh to issue a formal opinion that all post-October SBRs are illegal retroactively? Because that's a possible alternative. Gansler's not our buddy, but he's also not our enemy. Frosh just hates us.

    I don't mean to be rude but you can make up whatever far out scenario you want. I mean Frosh might just say that all guns are illegal when he is AG. However he is not AG and he is not even floating that idea. MSP will confirm that SBRs are not subject to these new laws and we should leave it at that. Who will be going to the AG if MSP correctly rules that SBRs are not semi auto long guns or copy cats? I think the law it bad enough and we don't need to look for the ways they could make it worse by some how misreading the new law.

    I would be buying at least three SBRs now if I thought they were going to be banned. I am not. Anyone looking to do a SBR should be going about it as normal now...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I don't mean to be rude but you can make up whatever far out scenario you want. I mean Frosh might just say that all guns are illegal when he is AG.
    That's not a far-out scenario. That is him exercising the powers that the state gave to him to interpret the law. He cannot "interpret" the law to say all guns are illegal.

    However he is not AG and he is not even floating that idea.
    He is most certainly floating the idea. I'm vaguely surprised you were unaware of that:
    http://www.marylandjuice.com/2012/07/breaking-senator-brian-frosh-plotting.html

    MSP will confirm that SBRs are not subject to these new laws and we should leave it at that. Who will be going to the AG if MSP correctly rules that SBRs are not semi auto long guns or copy cats? I think the law it bad enough and we don't need to look for the ways they could make it worse by some how misreading the new law.
    You seem to have an awful lot of faith that the MSP will interpret this law correctly, or that will not later reverse themselves. Example: Bulletin 96-1.

    I would be buying at least three SBRs now if I thought they were going to be banned. I am not. Anyone looking to do a SBR should be going about it as normal now...
    I hope you can live without them if you're wrong. *shrugs*
     

    DarthZed

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 25, 2010
    1,647
    Howard County
    That's not a far-out scenario. That is him exercising the powers that the state gave to him to interpret the law. He cannot "interpret" the law to say all guns are illegal.


    He is most certainly floating the idea. I'm vaguely surprised you were unaware of that:
    http://www.marylandjuice.com/2012/07/breaking-senator-brian-frosh-plotting.html

    I think IMBLITZVT meant Frosh wasn't floating the idea of outlawing all guns, since that would be beyond his scope as AG; not whether he was planning on running for AG. I mention this since the article in the link you provided only mentioned that Frosh was contemplating a run at AG. It had nothing in it about any potential gun policies he might try and impose.
     

    Wayne1one

    gun aficionado
    Feb 13, 2011
    3,127
    Bowie, MD
    Only works for a form 4. If SBRs are in fact covered by the copycat and assault long gun tests, you are way too late for a form 1.

    WRONG!

    Form 1 on a Pre-ban lower is fine for a lower possessed before 10/1. The lower is the registered part, he could already be in possession of the SBR upper prior to Oct 1st! (you can do as you please). This is the same as any other build that you want to make with a lower possessed prior to 10/1 (NFA or not)....
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Form 1 on a Pre-ban lower is fine for a lower possessed before 10/1. The lower is the registered part, he could already be in possession of the SBR upper prior to Oct 1st! (you can do as you please). This is the same as any other build that you want to make with a lower possessed prior to 10/1 (NFA or not)....
    Disagree. You are not considering that the form 1 is permission to MANUFACTURE. Maryland code defines rifles and SBRs separately. They are no the same thing. It is not entirely clear that you can go from one to the other without manufacturing, which is a banned act if you're not a licensed manufacturer. I think it is a somewhat different problem than stripped lowers in general.

    Of course, if the interpretation is consistent, SBRs wouldn't be affected at all by the bill. Don't bet on that.
     

    DarthZed

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 25, 2010
    1,647
    Howard County
    WRONG!

    Form 1 on a Pre-ban lower is fine for a lower possessed before 10/1. The lower is the registered part, he could already be in possession of the SBR upper prior to Oct 1st! (you can do as you please). This is the same as any other build that you want to make with a lower possessed prior to 10/1 (NFA or not)....

    The ATF considers a form 1 to be "manufacturing a firearm", which would be illegal under SB281 after October 1. Regardless of whether you already own the registered part that will be SBRed, MD could interpret the ATF language to mean that you will be unable to do any more form 1s. As has been stated, the language is contradictory (like most of that wonky bill). But no one can state for certain which way this is going to go. We should all just keep quiet about this as long as MSP is letting Form 1's pass.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,930
    Messages
    7,259,487
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom