A bit of a lurker, but I had a question for clarification about "copycat weapons". If someone possess a weapon that isn't banned based on features, but is suddenly deemed a copycat weapon, will their legal ownership be grandfathered in if they purchased it before 2013?
Copycat weapon question
- Thread starter JG447688
- Start date
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Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,291
IF I'm following your question properly , it would be Grandfathered if owned by You pre 10/ 01/2013 .
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Well, it is CURRENTLY grandfathered if purchased before 10/1/2013.
But, if they change the features list, the COULD change the grandfathering.
But, if they change the features list, the COULD change the grandfathering.
- Jan 31, 2009
- 3,286
Yes. IANAL.
danb
dont be a dumbass
I think I understand what the problem is here: the MDSP scary black rifle web page.
The MDSP banned firearms list on the intertubes is advisory only (there is a thread about this somewhere). They disavowed it essentially as legally binding in a lawsuit.
What matters is whether the firearm really is banned. MDSP does not hire trained armorers to check, they go off internet rumor sometimes. And for some they change their mind like teenagers change their clothes. Nothering is "suddenly deemed a copycat weapon" - it either is or it isnt.
A "Copycat weapon" (capital C) is banned based on features test.
A copy of a banned firearm is banned because it is an interchangeable copy of a banned-by-name firearm.
There are numerous errors in the scary black rifle list on the MDSP web page. There are more than a few that have been (erroneously) listed as banned, then corrected and are now un-banned. There are even now a few on the list which clearly have a "heavy barrel" per the manufacturers spec, but are erroneously listed as banned. Of course, some are un-banned, banned, then corrected as well. This is what happens with a vague law and an agency with a finger in the air who does not employ armorers to check.
So, you are not in legal jeopardy just because the MDSP erroneously changes the list. You are in legal jeopardy if your rifle is truly banned. Is it? I dont know, I dont know what it is. If you have an HBAR rifle my suggestion is to keep a copy of the email or webpage with "heavy barrel" listed. If its not an AR, but its similar to a named weapon, whatever you can to show its not a true copy.
The MDSP banned firearms list on the intertubes is advisory only (there is a thread about this somewhere). They disavowed it essentially as legally binding in a lawsuit.
What matters is whether the firearm really is banned. MDSP does not hire trained armorers to check, they go off internet rumor sometimes. And for some they change their mind like teenagers change their clothes. Nothering is "suddenly deemed a copycat weapon" - it either is or it isnt.
A "Copycat weapon" (capital C) is banned based on features test.
A copy of a banned firearm is banned because it is an interchangeable copy of a banned-by-name firearm.
There are numerous errors in the scary black rifle list on the MDSP web page. There are more than a few that have been (erroneously) listed as banned, then corrected and are now un-banned. There are even now a few on the list which clearly have a "heavy barrel" per the manufacturers spec, but are erroneously listed as banned. Of course, some are un-banned, banned, then corrected as well. This is what happens with a vague law and an agency with a finger in the air who does not employ armorers to check.
So, you are not in legal jeopardy just because the MDSP erroneously changes the list. You are in legal jeopardy if your rifle is truly banned. Is it? I dont know, I dont know what it is. If you have an HBAR rifle my suggestion is to keep a copy of the email or webpage with "heavy barrel" listed. If its not an AR, but its similar to a named weapon, whatever you can to show its not a true copy.
my understanding is that copycat weapons were defined by MSP as weapons with 100% interchangable parts with a weapon that is on the banned by name list. Intended to prevent a manufacturer from getting off the banned list merely by changing the name. For that reason AR 15 is banned if it contains the scary features, but AR 10 which is essentially the same rifle in a different caliber, has no such restrictions.
ken792
Ultimate Member
“Copycat” is an actual legal category that does not include “assault long guns,” which are the enumerated models. “Copycat” is not to be confused with “copies,” which the enumerated list says are also “assault long guns”
drking2
Ultimate Member
Before 2013 is grandfathered, after not
danb
dont be a dumbass
I think that the cruz of the question though is "suddenly deemed a copycat weapon" in the OP.
This does not really happen.
However the MDSP sticks its finger in the air and changes its opinion on the website**. Many times it does a full 360 on guns. As I noted there are few on the list improperly listed, because they are not interchangeable or come with a "heavy barrel." Many have been fixed/corrected but it takes a year or more. I dont know who signs off on this baloney but they should be defunded.
If its a "Copycat" one can always just take the flash hider off or replace the folder with a fixed stock and its no longer a Copycat in the sense of the statute (see post #8).
**ETA and people have bought guns and transferred them through and MD FFL, only to see the MDSP website be updated with "banned"
and then re-updated with "not banned" 
I suspect that this is what is motivating the question.
This does not really happen.
However the MDSP sticks its finger in the air and changes its opinion on the website**. Many times it does a full 360 on guns. As I noted there are few on the list improperly listed, because they are not interchangeable or come with a "heavy barrel." Many have been fixed/corrected but it takes a year or more. I dont know who signs off on this baloney but they should be defunded.
If its a "Copycat" one can always just take the flash hider off or replace the folder with a fixed stock and its no longer a Copycat in the sense of the statute (see post #8).
**ETA and people have bought guns and transferred them through and MD FFL, only to see the MDSP website be updated with "banned"
and then re-updated with "not banned" I suspect that this is what is motivating the question.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,070
I just never understood the differentiation between "copy" and "copycat". Must be my dyslexia kicking in.
(and don't anyone bother trying to explain it to me[again], it won't take)
(and don't anyone bother trying to explain it to me[again], it won't take)
danb
dont be a dumbass
The statute was written by people who know nothing about guns with the aim to scare people with vague terms so they wont buy guns.
Its not dyslexia, the statute was designed to be confusing.
Its not dyslexia, the statute was designed to be confusing.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,070
I will settle for that.
That would be a copy, not a copycat, and was defined in an opinion letter written by the AG.
Completely incorrect, the copy was basically copied verbiage from California law back in 1989 when the first 36 items were regulated with regards to rifles/shotguns by name. The AR-10 has never been regulated, not based on caliber, but simply based on not being named, since it is indeed a completely different model from the AR-15.
It's easy...
Copy was moved over from the regulated to the banned verbiage when they changed the word regulated to the word banned with regards to rifles/shotguns. A firearm can be banned for being a copy (100% parts interchangeable) and still pass the evil features test.
Copycat means it fails the evil features test. A firearm can fail the evil features test and still not be 100% parts interchangeable. Remove one of the evil features and it becomes legal.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Actually NONE, by the actual words.
But by the law, copy or imitation is a copy of a banned firearm.
A copy cat is one that is not banned, or not a copy of a banned firearm, but still banned, since it has evil features.
Copy cat is just such a stupid term to use in a law. It makes no sense at all since it is not a copy of anything and why throw a f’ing cat into the mix?
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,291
Because MGA .
- Jan 31, 2009
- 3,286
Copycat fails the evil feature test and therefore banned.
Copy is a copy of a banned rifle named on the list (same caliber and interchangable parts).
It's dumb, but not that hard to sort out.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,070
It's more the nomenclature that is so misleading. Shoulda' come up with a better term.
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