SCOTUS Taking Up 4th Amendment Case

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  • Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    I wonder how the officer is supposed to know if it is the persons house or not? I supposed he opened the garage door during his flight in this case, but if someone runs into an open garage door or unlocked front door the police are to assume they are in their house?
     

    Speedfreak

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 16, 2021
    122
    From what I read, the officer had more than enough probable cause. I'd be shocked if the court doesn't side with Law Enforcement. Then again, with everything happening in this country in the last year, the Constitution and the law doesn't mean diddly to most in government.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    From what I read, the officer had more than enough probable cause. I'd be shocked if the court doesn't side with Law Enforcement. Then again, with everything happening in this country in the last year, the Constitution and the law doesn't mean diddly to most in government.

    I think you missed the part where 7-2 the court sided with the defendant. Officers may not peruse a suspect of a misdemeanor in to a private home without first seeking a warrant unless probable cause exists that the defendant might commit a felony or cause imminent harm to another.

    Which is how it should be.

    Probable cause of committing a misdemeanor just isn’t sufficient is what the court is saying to be cause to invade a home without a warrant.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I wonder how the officer is supposed to know if it is the persons house or not? I supposed he opened the garage door during his flight in this case, but if someone runs into an open garage door or unlocked front door the police are to assume they are in their house?

    Doesn’t matter if it is theirs. Would an officer need a warrant to search it? Or is a public space (even if privately owned). If it is a private residence, they need a warrant is exactly what SCOTUS said.

    Why should police assume someone might have run in to someone else’s house? I mean, if they bust down the door, sure. I’d imagine real quick the cops are going to know if a suspect of a misdemeanor just invaded someone else’s home if anyone is home. If they aren’t home that sucks. But probably should leave your doors unlocked and garage wide open when you aren’t home.

    Rights aren’t there to find exceptions as to why you can construe a circumstance where having that right is a bad thing. Because I can come up with a shed load of exceptions as to why our 2A rights should be curtailed. There are about 10,000+ of those reasons every year.

    For every half a dozen suspects cops rightfully chase accused of some misdemeanor, they also chase some innocent person. Or “chase” someone in to their house. Plenty of instances of cops drumming up probable cause to search people’s houses. Harder to do that for a felony.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    The perfect shirt for perps now...
     

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    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Doesn’t matter if it is theirs. Would an officer need a warrant to search it? Or is a public space (even if privately owned). If it is a private residence, they need a warrant is exactly what SCOTUS said.

    Why should police assume someone might have run in to someone else’s house? I mean, if they bust down the door, sure. I’d imagine real quick the cops are going to know if a suspect of a misdemeanor just invaded someone else’s home if anyone is home. If they aren’t home that sucks. But probably should leave your doors unlocked and garage wide open when you aren’t home.

    Rights aren’t there to find exceptions as to why you can construe a circumstance where having that right is a bad thing. Because I can come up with a shed load of exceptions as to why our 2A rights should be curtailed. There are about 10,000+ of those reasons every year.

    For every half a dozen suspects cops rightfully chase accused of some misdemeanor, they also chase some innocent person. Or “chase” someone in to their house. Plenty of instances of cops drumming up probable cause to search people’s houses. Harder to do that for a felony.

    Because...I leave my garage door open during the day. Under your interruption, anyone fleeing from the police can enter my garage, hit the close door button, and the police have to abandon their immediate arrest.

    I'll go one further...many homes in my area leave their front doors open with a screen door closed. If someone was in flight from the police, all they'd have to do is enter the home and the police are told to walk away?

    It certainly does matter if it is there home. The difference should be if they are invited or not. If you are breaking into my house, or on my property illegally, then you suffer a diminished expectation of privacy...at least in my mind.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,354
    SoMD / West PA
    Because...I leave my garage door open during the day. Under your interruption, anyone fleeing from the police can enter my garage, hit the close door button, and the police have to abandon their immediate arrest.

    I'll go one further...many homes in my area leave their front doors open with a screen door closed. If someone was in flight from the police, all they'd have to do is enter the home and the police are told to walk away?

    It certainly does matter if it is there home. The difference should be if they are invited or not. If you are breaking into my house, or on my property illegally, then you suffer a diminished expectation of privacy...at least in my mind.

    Not abandon, switch modes.

    If you feel there is a need to pursue, call for backup to surveil the home and start the process to get a warrant.
    You could even approach the home and knock on the door.

    If the warrant is shot down, that is when you abandon.
    If the warrant is approved, then you proceed as stipulated in the warrant.
    If you are invited in, then proceed as a civilized person until there is a time not to be.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Not abandon, switch modes.

    If you feel there is a need to pursue, call for backup to surveil the home and start the process to get a warrant.
    You could even approach the home and knock on the door.

    If the warrant is shot down, that is when you abandon.
    If the warrant is approved, then you proceed as stipulated in the warrant.
    If you are invited in, then proceed as a civilized person until there is a time not to be.

    Exactly. Again, exactly with what I was saying. If the home is occupied and a stranger runs in, the cops don’t have to turn and run away. They’ll probably no real quick if there are existent circumstances and they should run in if they hear shouting. SCOTUS was relatively clear that not all misdemeanors mean police have to break off. It it is a violent misdemeanor, it is likely police can still pursue as it shows a possibility they could commit further violence. If the cops happen to know that the person just ran in to someone else’s house, the cops could probably make a case they believed the individual was engage in a B&E which is a felony almost everywhere.

    But the actual case though was a guy pulled in to his garage after police supposedly flipped on their lights just a couple hundred feet away. Then he close the garage door and the cop stopped it with his foot and walked in. Not real likely to a breaking and entering going on there.

    Several instances of cops forcing their way in to people’s homes on suspicion that the individual was a suspect in a misdemeanor rather than getting a warrant after the “suspect” answered the door.

    Things of that nature.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,354
    SoMD / West PA
    the cops could probably make a case they believed the individual was engage in a B&E which is a felony almost everywhere.
    .

    Not quite.

    It's only a felony, if someone is home.

    Otherwise B&E is a misdemeanor, like burglary in the 4th degree.

    Thank the Democrats in Annapolis for that.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,407
    Glen Burnie
    So. Replace "stuck his foot under the garage door" with "walked to the front door, turned the door knob, and walked in".

    That's still ok?
     

    daNattyFatty

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 27, 2009
    3,908
    Bel Air, MD
    Not quite.

    It's only a felony, if someone is home.

    Otherwise B&E is a misdemeanor, like burglary in the 4th degree.

    Thank the Democrats in Annapolis for that.

    That’s incorrect. It becomes a felony when the intruder commits a crime in the house, regardless of whether the home is occupied or not.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,449
    MD
    Not abandon, switch modes.

    If you feel there is a need to pursue, call for backup to surveil the home and start the process to get a warrant
    .

    I have police friends in many parts of the country where this isn't an option. There is no backup and there is no judge working after hours to sign warrants.
     

    motorcoachdoug

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    I have police friends in many parts of the country where this isn't an option. There is no backup and there is no judge working after hours to sign warrants.


    Example
    My cousin Mark who lives in the northern part of Idaho tells me sometimes there is only 1 or 2 deputy sheriffs per shift and or backup could be half an hour away. In the county of Harney in Oregon in the town Burns their is no police officer on duty between 2am and 6am. They have one on call and the only person working in public safety is the dispatcher and or they will forward the police dept calls to the on call pd officer at home asleep.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Not quite.

    It's only a felony, if someone is home.

    Otherwise B&E is a misdemeanor, like burglary in the 4th degree.

    Thank the Democrats in Annapolis for that.

    Wrong. 1st and 3rd degree burglaries are felonies and neither require anyone to be in the home.
     

    Moon

    M-O-O-N, that spells...
    Jan 4, 2013
    2,367
    In Orbit
    Seeing someone enter a house is not probable cause to suspect that a crime is being committed.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Seeing someone enter a house is not probable cause to suspect that a crime is being committed.

    Gee..thanks.

    But fleeing a traffic stop into a house...at least in my mind, could certainly bridge that gap.

    The conversation isn't about going into someones house who just walked in. It's about fleeing a lawful traffic stop into the house and expecting the police to know if it is that person's house, or at least if they are a welcomed guest, as opposed to entering an open garage door during their unlawful flight.

    I expected more of a logical post from you.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,354
    SoMD / West PA
    I have police friends in many parts of the country where this isn't an option. There is no backup and there is no judge working after hours to sign warrants.

    Knocking on the door, and asking nicely is always the polite thing to do.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,354
    SoMD / West PA
    Wrong. 1st and 3rd degree burglaries are felonies and neither require anyone to be in the home.

    We are in agreement 1st-3rd degree burglary are felonies.

    4th degree burglary is a misdemeanor.

    My point I was trying to make, not all burglaries are felonies.
     

    Moon

    M-O-O-N, that spells...
    Jan 4, 2013
    2,367
    In Orbit
    Did they unlock the door or climb in through a window?

    I've had to climb through the window of my own residence many times without committing a crime. I'm sure plenty of people have unlocked the door to their house, walked in, and within minutes committed a crime.

    I'll give you that climbing into an obscured window could be suspicious enough to attempt to stop the climber though.
     

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