C&R Maryland questions

Jack Ryan · Aug 17, 2019

A Western Maryland gun shop employee told me last week that all C&R eligible handguns bought out of state on the internet and delivered to a C&R guy’s home in Maryland still had to go through a transfer at the gun shop. I thought once it was received, you entered it into your bound book, and were done?

Boats · Aug 17, 2019

If you have an 03 ffl, you ARE a "gun shop".

Jack Ryan · Aug 17, 2019

Boats said:
If you have an 03 ffl, you ARE a "gun shop".

That’s what I said, he said it still had to go through the MSP.

BeoBill · Aug 17, 2019

The "gun shop employee" is mistaken, and needs to keep their opinion to themself.

A1Uni · Aug 17, 2019

If you buy a regulated firearm (handgun) C&R In-State, it must go an a 77R through MSP.

If you buy form outside of MD, it ships right to your door and goes into your A&D book.

A 03-FFL isn't "a gun shop," as you can't engage in the commerce of C&R firearms, but you can only occasionally dispose of items from your collection.

What does that mean?

If the ATF audits your A&D Book, and they sometimes do spot check 03s, and they see what think is too many guns going out, they may consider you to be engaged in the firearms sales business without a proper license.

whistlersmother · Aug 17, 2019

And some of us are like a black hole of guns - they come in but can't go out.

Not sure where all the storage is located... maybe a Tardis in the basement...

Just to add - even in-state purchase that goes through 77r must be recorded in the bound volume.

Jack Ryan · Aug 17, 2019

Thanks, glad to see my understanding of C&R was correct.

rseymorejr · Aug 17, 2019

My bound book is like a roach motel. Guns check in but they don't check out!

mac1_131 · Aug 17, 2019

rseymorejr said:
My bound book is like a roach motel. Guns check in but they don't check out!

LOL

Zorros · Aug 18, 2019

Jack Ryan said:
A Western Maryland gun shop employee told me last week that all C&R eligible handguns bought out of state on the internet and delivered to a C&R guy’s home in Maryland still had to go through a transfer at the gun shop. I thought once it was received, you entered it into your bound book, and were done?

Gun shop employee is wrong.

Jack Ryan · Aug 18, 2019

Zorros said:
Gun shop employee is wrong.

I have known Jimbo for years and like him, his knowledge of firearms is good, except he consistently gets it wrong on all things C&R, but he speaks with such confidence that I question my understanding.

Jimbo is either dead wrong, or he knows the right answers, but sees C&R as bad for the gun shop’s business, and spins fake C&R stories to convince folks to buy a HQL from them, and buy guns from the gun shop.

There is another sales guy there, Larry who fully concurred with Jimbo’s accessment.

Docster · Aug 18, 2019

Asked and answered many times. C & R is an FFL03 license and covers Interstate transactions. But/sell in Maryland and it's intrastate, the license has no advantages.. It's explained on the BATFE website and in the info every licensee receives. Ignore all the dealers, GunBroker experts and the like who say otherwise and spend your money elsewhere.

lazarus · Aug 19, 2019

Docster said:
Asked and answered many times. C & R is an FFL03 license and covers Interstate transactions. But/sell in Maryland and it's intrastate, the license has no advantages.. It's explained on the BATFE website and in the info every licensee receives. Ignore all the dealers, GunBroker experts and the like who say otherwise and spend your money elsewhere.

Not entirely true. C&R long gun instate from an FFL means you give them a copy of your FFL, they give you a copy of theirs and then you give them some money and walk out with your new toy. No 4470 needed. I’ve only bought two guns in person with my FFL03. One was in PA where I got to skip the $10 add on state background check fee. The other was also PA and an old revolver where the guy was happy enough to sell to an FFL03 he was willing to negotiate down an extra $20 to save the hassle of transferring to a MD FFL and/or if I had been in state the background check, etc.

I am sure many a MD FFL won’t cut you any break, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. It saves them a little time and paperwork they’ve gotta fill out and store if all they’ve gotta do is enter your FFL in their bound book.

It just does nothing for handguns.

Threeband · Aug 19, 2019

I bought a rifle from a dealer in Maryland once using my 03 FFL. As lazarus said, it's basically swap copies of your FFLs and fork over the money.

bbrown · Aug 19, 2019

Lou at Shooter's Discount always accepted them for C&R long guns, saying it saved having to fill out 4473s and calling the ATF.

South Carroll Sporting Goods accepts them for C&R long guns, for the same reason.

Melnic · Aug 19, 2019

hmm gun shop getting C&R wrong. Seems to happen quite often. Did then, does now.
Docster has it so correct and simplified.

KJackson · Aug 20, 2019

whistlersmother said:
Just to add - even in-state purchase that goes through 77r must be recorded in the bound volume.

Okay, I am confused. Are you saying that all 77R purchases in-state have to be put in my bound book, or C&R only? Or did you mean 4473 purchases? Either way, if I am not using my license, do I need to record a C&R purchase in my bound book?

One example is that I bought a Mosin a while back from an IP here. Since I was under the understanding that you could not use an FF03 license for in-state purchases, I didn't even mention that I had one and bought it using the 4473 just like anybody else in the store that day. Do I still need to record this in my bound book since it is a C&R rifle?

sxs · Aug 20, 2019

KJackson said:
Okay, I am confused. Are you saying that all 77R purchases in-state have to be put in my bound book, or C&R only? Or did you mean 4473 purchases? Either way, if I am not using my license, do I need to record a C&R purchase in my bound book?

One example is that I bought a Mosin a while back from an IP here. Since I was under the understanding that you could not use an FF03 license for in-state purchases, I didn't even mention that I had one and bought it using the 4473 just like anybody else in the store that day. Do I still need to record this in my bound book since it is a C&R rifle?

Yes.

lazarus · Aug 20, 2019

sxs said:
Yes.

Correct. Anything that is C&R that is purchased or disposed of must be recorded in your bound book. Doesn’t matter if you use your license to buy it or not. Of course only during the period in which your license is valid. That also means you should be trying to use your license. Better to just write down their FFL than the full shop name and address IMHO.

Hi-Torque · Aug 20, 2019

One our IP's asked me to please get a C&R because he was tired of running NCIS background checks on me for cheap surplus rifles (back when Mosins were cheap). He stated with an 03FFL, we could swap copies, fill out our log books, and i'd be on my way, saving both of us time and effort. He would even give me a % discount when buying with a C&R since the paperwork took him so much less time. Stand up IP if you ask me!

The downside to a retailer encouraging me to get a C&R was I could suddenly then buy at the same wholesale pricing that they were buying at (and rightfully marking up from), so my in-store purchases became less and less since the best deals were mostly at the importers or online, and only special items were then purchased in store. That's the #1 reason in my book for most gun shops to spread misinformation to the public about 03FFL's, it's almost a guaranteed way to lose in-store sales in the long term. It gives you the same buying power as they have on C&R items. I'm sure some aren't spreading misinformation intentionally, but I do believe some try to scare people away from C&R's for business purposes.

Another IP told me that if I bought a C&R handgun out of state with my 03FFL, I had to immediately go to the state police to turn it in, and they'd keep it for 7 days (minimum) until I was cleared to own it. I was also told that the state police get really agitated when people buy out of state and take possession first, before their state background check is run (and I might be arrested on the spot for bringing it to them to comply!). I just laughed and said OK! and didn't further the conversation, he was adamant I had to hand over any C&R handguns to the police, thereby making it easier and cheaper to just purchase everything in his store directly. Clearly I never went back to that store, if they're that wrong about a known topic, then how I can trust them to be correct on other legal topics? No reason to argue though, their shop, their rules, I just took my money elsewhere.

C&R Maryland questions

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Broken Member

Ultimate Member

Crank in the Third Row

Ultimate Member

Peace through strength

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

MSI Executive Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

The M1 Does My Talking

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Senior Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics