Now that Stun guns are legal in Md.

Stoveman · Jul 6, 2017

Brychan said:
Thanks everyone, after listening to advice here and watching some YouTube videos I'm still in a quandary as to what to get them.

1) stun gun: up close and it appears you need prolonged contact to do much more than give them a zap and piss them off.

2) taser: better range, but you have to hit your mark, larger than a stun gun, doubt I could get them to carry it all the time. Also worry at first sight may be mistaken as a pistol and get them shot.

3) pepper spray: getting the spray blown back into their face or breathing it in if in the heat of the moment if they spray into the wind.

As an authorized TASER dealer I may be a little biased, but I would go for the Pulse. Very compact, you can actually cover it with your hand, concealed carry is GTG, and it has an integral laser for getting that shot off accurately. It can also be used as a stun gun without the prong cartridge if desired.

Best choice would be a combination of TASER and OC spray.

And yes, TASERS are legal in MD with the exception of Ocean City. Recent lawsuits have resulted in laws being changed.

I have the Pulse in stock if you are interested.

knastera · Jul 6, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
I will say, you do NOT want to equip them with stun guns . If you choose against Taser for whatever reason, OC would be next choice.

I teach the NRA Refuse To Be A Victim seminar and I completely agree. In a confrontation, distance is your friend. Stun guns require direct contact. Tasers and OC don't. If you are going with OC, I highly recommend the Kimber Pepperblaster II. I carry one every day. In 2014, I used one to stop an attempted murder in Baltimore City. The advantages of the Kimber are significant:
1) It shoots 112mph, so it is pretty much unaffected by the weather
2) It is flat and compact, so it is easy to conceal
3) It has a trigger safety
4) The shelf life is five years
5) The OC contains red dye, so it is easy to identity the person you shot
6) It is shaped like a pistol, to include pistol sights, so it feels very natural to shoot
7) It makes a loud bang when you pull the trigger
8) It provides a second shot

You can get these for $40 or less from Amazon, Kimber, and Cabela's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mr H · Jul 6, 2017

knastera said:
I teach the NRA Refuse To Be A Victim seminar and I completely agree. In a confrontation, distance is your friend. Stun guns require direct contact. Tasers and OC don't. If you are going with OC, I highly recommend the Kimber Pepperblaster II. I carry one every day. In 2014, I used one to stop an attempted murder in Baltimore City. The advantages of the Kimber are significant:
1) It shoots 112mph, so it is pretty much unaffected by the weather
2) It is flat and compact, so it is easy to conceal
3) It has a trigger safety
4) The shelf life is five years
5) The OC contains red dye, so it is easy to identity the person you shot
6) It is shaped like a pistol, to include pistol sights, so it feels very natural to shoot
7) It makes a loud bang when you pull the trigger
8) It provides a second shot

You can get these for $40 or less from Amazon, Kimber, and Cabela's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you...

I wasn't going there as it was initially an ECD thread, but the wife and I both carry the Kimber as our EDC.

The grey in a cell phone holster is quite unobtrusive, and I've only been asked about it twice by, shall we say, highly observant people.

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

danb said:
I 100% agree with keeping the threat at some distance.

That said, keep in mind that in public in MD, you have a duty to retreat before you employ force, if you can. With a stun gun, there is really no question that you could not retreat. With a Taser, the didndunuffin can allege assault.

Then you can say the same for spray.
So an attacker has to be handling/laying on top of a woman in order for her to deploy a less-than-lethal? You do know they are to be used to prevent an attack, right? To prevent injury.

DC-W · Jul 6, 2017

Taser is a brand and these devices do not require direct contact to use.

The first rule of any fight is to not be in the fight. If it can be avoided, it should. However, if you cannot safely retreat from an imminent threat and you were in no way the aggressor, you have a right to defend yourself with proportional force.

IANAL.

Brychan · Jul 6, 2017

knastera said:
I teach the NRA Refuse To Be A Victim seminar and I completely agree. In a confrontation, distance is your friend. Stun guns require direct contact. Tasers and OC don't. If you are going with OC, I highly recommend the Kimber Pepperblaster II. I carry one every day. In 2014, I used one to stop an attempted murder in Baltimore City. The advantages of the Kimber are significant:
1) It shoots 112mph, so it is pretty much unaffected by the weather
2) It is flat and compact, so it is easy to conceal
3) It has a trigger safety
4) The shelf life is five years
5) The OC contains red dye, so it is easy to identity the person you shot
6) It is shaped like a pistol, to include pistol sights, so it feels very natural to shoot
7) It makes a loud bang when you pull the trigger
8) It provides a second shot

You can get these for $40 or less from Amazon, Kimber, and Cabela's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is the kimber pepper blaster better than Saber? I was just looking at a Saber that has 25 short bursts. I like that because it seems better for the small pack of didntdonuffings.

I want the best chance for them to leave the attacker on the ground with enough time to vacate the area.

knastera · Jul 6, 2017

Brychan said:
Is the kimber pepper blaster better than Saber? I was just looking at a Saber that has 25 short bursts. I like that because it seems better for the small pack of didntdonuffings.

I want the best chance for them to leave the attacker on the ground with enough time to vacate the area.

Yes, the OC in the Pepperblaster is better than Sabre because it has a higher Scoville Heat Unit (SHU) rating. You are not going to be able to take out several attackers with any device, even a firearm. Your best bet is to take out one or two, run through the hole you created, and blow a whistle while running. I always carry a Fox 40 referee whistle. The sound it creates is 115db and can be heard 200 yards away.
The velocity of the spray in the Pepperblaster is the biggest game changer. Most pepper spray canisters are low pressure and will be affected by wind, especially at a distance. The Pepperblaster shoots a burst of OC at 112mph.
It's not that Sabre is bad, it's that the Pepperblaster is so much better. I've seen it first hand.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

danb · Jul 6, 2017

Blaster229 said:
Then you can say the same for spray.
So an attacker has to be handling/laying on top of a woman in order for her to deploy a less-than-lethal? You do know they are to be used to prevent an attack, right? To prevent injury.

Spray is harder to trace to a particular person.

I am not endorsing or agreeing with MD self defense law, just stating the situation - distance is both your friend and enemy. And, yes, we do have an abundance of errant idiotic anti-self defense pacifist prosecutors. You may come out the other end innocent, but a lot poorer.

The ideal TASER model for MD also has the ability to record for 30 seconds to support your side of the story, but they don't make that yet.

knastera · Jul 6, 2017

danb said:
Spray is harder to trace to a particular person.

I am not endorsing or agreeing with MD self defense law, just stating the situation - distance is both your friend and enemy. And, yes, we do have an abundance of errant idiotic anti-self defense pacifist prosecutors. You may come out the other end innocent, but a lot poorer.

The ideal TASER model for MD also has the ability to record for 30 seconds to support your side of the story, but they don't make that yet.

It's interesting you mention the recording device because the Taser corporation is also a leading manufacturer of body cams for LE.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

danb said:
Spray is harder to trace to a particular person.

I am not endorsing or agreeing with MD self defense law, just stating the situation - distance is both your friend and enemy. And, yes, we do have an abundance of errant idiotic anti-self defense pacifist prosecutors. You may come out the other end innocent, but a lot poorer.

The ideal TASER model for MD also has the ability to record for 30 seconds to support your side of the story, but they don't make that yet.

Puhleez. A woman in a dark parking lot using spray, etc... On some thug, she needs to worry? She obviously didn't go out of her way to find someone to assault. A woman does not have to try and run away before engaging.
You tell your loved ones that. Mine will stick with their will to survive.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 6, 2017

Stun guns do NOT work as shown on TV and movies . You must close with BG, go hands on , control them well enough to hold them still for 5sec, and hold the stun gin in contact for 5sec . Do all that, and it has high likelyhood of workin g as wished. Very useful for Corrections if Carl the Convict refused to go in to / out of his cell, and you have multiple CO . Occasionally useful for LE .

For SD on the street, by people at a physical disadvantage to their.attackers, not what they need.

OC ( Pepper Spray) is mixed. The reason I implied it was 2nd behind Tazer waa stand off distance. At least 15ft *most* conditions, up to 25ft or more ideal conditions.

The primary downside is variable timing for OC to have meaningful effect upon spray-ee. Could be instantanous, could be 30minutes . In a Self Defense situation with OC as primary defense, if it hasn't worked within single digit seconds, preferably low single digit seconds, you are in deep do-do .

Just this week, I observed first hand an apparently drugged or mentally unstable violent individual get a perfect faceful of OC with no meaningful effect for a time period measured in minutes .

Brychan · Jul 6, 2017

Thanks everyone, I took what I learned here and YouTube video's. Sat down with the women folk, we watched a couple of videos on stun guns, the kimber blaster, and sabre pepper spray. Then discussed the options. They decided on the sabre spray, the videos on the kimber blaster all showed that the first shot went low as it fired from the bottom chamber, it the one video were it hit the guy in the chin with the first shot and he didn't have any reaction or slow down made them decide on the sabre. I guess that it is better than nothing. Of course their main defense is to be aware and avoid certain areas.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 6, 2017

Added- And sometimes it ( OC spray) does work quickly, even instantaneously. Just don't assume so, and have a Plan B to quickly deploy .

Another Good News for OC is that it is well down the Use of Force continium , just above stern looks and harsh words , so more defensible to monday morning quarterbacking later.

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
Added- And sometimes it ( OC spray) does work quickly, even instantaneously. Just don't assume so, and have a Plan B to quickly deploy .

Another Good News for OC is that it is well down the Use of Force continium , just above stern looks and harsh words , so more defensible to monday morning quarterbacking later.

Non law enforcement do not have a force continuum to abide by.

Pensfaninmd · Jul 6, 2017

DC-W said:
Do NOT buy a stun gun. Contact weapon. Only deals pain. Questionable reliability.

Get a taser. Increase the distance between you and the threat. Interrupts their nervous system and deals pain. Can be used like a stun gun in a worst case scenario.

Taser Pulse runs for 30 seconds on one trigger pull, giving you time to get away and call for help.

Great video!!!

Biggfoot44 · Jul 6, 2017

Non- LE use of defensive force still needs to be somewhat reasonable, and more or less appropriate. While maintaining one's safety and well being is Priority #1 , if you can also show your initial defensive efforts were in line with generally accepted LE practices it is a bonus .

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
Non- LE use of defensive force still needs to be somewhat reasonable, and more or less appropriate. While maintaining one's safety and well being is Priority #1 , if you can also show your initial defensive efforts were in line with generally accepted LE practices it is a bonus .

You teach your loved ones the force continuum. I'm not. Anything more than someone just yelling at my girls is enough to use less than lethal. Approaching without stopping after a warning is good enough.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 6, 2017

That IS appropriate use of OC .

Redcobra · Jul 6, 2017

knastera said:
I teach the NRA Refuse To Be A Victim seminar and I completely agree. In a confrontation, distance is your friend. Stun guns require direct contact. Tasers and OC don't. If you are going with OC, I highly recommend the Kimber Pepperblaster II. I carry one every day. In 2014, I used one to stop an attempted murder in Baltimore City. The advantages of the Kimber are significant:
1) It shoots 112mph, so it is pretty much unaffected by the weather
2) It is flat and compact, so it is easy to conceal
3) It has a trigger safety
4) The shelf life is five years
5) The OC contains red dye, so it is easy to identity the person you shot
6) It is shaped like a pistol, to include pistol sights, so it feels very natural to shoot
7) It makes a loud bang when you pull the trigger
8) It provides a second shot

You can get these for $40 or less from Amazon, Kimber, and Cabela's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How does this compare to the Ruger one.
https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/ruger-pepper-spray-gun

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

Redcobra said:
How does this compare to the Ruger one.
https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/ruger-pepper-spray-gun

I always thought the kimber shot pepper balls. Guess not

Now that Stun guns are legal in Md.

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