The Law and carrying a firearm at a gun store
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Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
Looks like it was Non prosed. Then he rolled the dice in a civil suit and lost that ...creating a damaging president.
Brilliant..
He was the head of security supposedly and wouLD most likely have qualified for a,permit as well..
Lots of stupid..
There are only a few locations and activities that a handgun or regulated firearm may be transpored to,
Places like your home, bonefide residence, range, gun shop, or activities like informal target shooting, certain hunting, or dog obedience training.
Designated collectors may also informally exhibit. Whatever that means.
JamesH
That Guy
No, "bona fide collectors" can transport to public or private exhibitions. As has been covered ad nauseum elsewhere, the Designated Collector status only affects your ability to buy more than one regulated firearm per month. Anyone can act in good faith (bona fide) as a collector and benefit from the exhibition exemption. And a Designated Collector who is not acting in good faith gets no benefit from the exemption.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
That was not my understanding (I assume you are defining "anyone" as someone who does NOT have a designated collector status from the MSP). Do you have support for that? I have not found any definition for "bona fide collectors" for purposes of 4-203. To assume that anyone can be a bona fide collector seems questionable, given the structure and intent of 4-203
Bona Fide is not defined in any statute I can find either.
Which means "bona fide collector" will be defined by the judge in each case.
If MSP has designated you as a collector, those would be bona fides. No?
if it's not defined, how does anyone know?
I agree with Mark, a judge will probably decide legislative intent.
I agree with Mark, a judge will probably decide legislative intent.
My employees got handgun permits "while acting as employees of Tyler Firearms". The process took about 60 days and was painless. That should avoid any problems.
Before then, in Baltimore County anyway, they would carry on the property with approval from the property owner. We've had BCPD, MSP, NCIS agents, and any number of other LEO on the property with them and no issues or hassles from anyone.
I would go handgun permit and solve most of your problems.
Before then, in Baltimore County anyway, they would carry on the property with approval from the property owner. We've had BCPD, MSP, NCIS agents, and any number of other LEO on the property with them and no issues or hassles from anyone.
I would go handgun permit and solve most of your problems.
JamesH
That Guy
DC status is nothing to do with 4-203. It is for Public Safety Article 5-129. From the MDSP FAQ:
For additional info about DC status, see COMAR 29.03.01.25. DC only pertains to purchasing, not 4-203.
For the definition of "bona fide", which is not defined in the law (like so many other terms used in MD Code), we are forced to rely on the ordinary meaning. See, for instance, Black's Law Dictionary.
That aside, it may help with a judge and/or jury to say, "I was given status as a designated collector by MSP, so that proves I am a bona fide collector." But if you're not acting in good faith as a collector when you are actually engaged in transporting the firearms in question, that defense goes out the window. And you are not required to be a Designated Collector to be a collector acting in good faith.
So what you are left with is that, while having your DC letter may help as evidence in your favor, it is neither necessary nor sufficient with reference to 4-203.
JamesH
That Guy
Applying the above to the OP, if you are taking your firearms to the gun shop to exhibit them, rock on (although also allowed under 4-203 anyway). If you are taking a gun to the shop for defensive purposes, you are not acting in good faith as a collector, so that particular exemption would not apply, regardless of whether you are a Designated Collector.
well if you own 100 firearms but have no DC letter, are younot a bona fide collector in the eyes of the law?
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
Yes, exactly, having a state-recognized status as a collector will likely mean that the LEO and the State's Attorney will conclude that the person is a "bona fide" collector. That thus means that the person will more likely avoid arrest and/or prosecution, assuming (as always) that he/she is otherwise within the scope (exhibition) of the exception and not off on some personal lark or using it as a general carry permit. The point is that since 4-203 does not define bona fide collector it is reasonable to look to other, related sections of the MD Code for help in the definition of "collector", hence the use of 5-129 for that purpose. I quite agree that a "bona fide collector" is NOT necessarily limited to persons having DC status under 5-129. I am suggesting that DC status makes it easier to prove bona fide collector status for purposes of 4-203 and may help avoid arrest and prosecution. It's better than lugging around my Black's Law Dictionary (which is too heavy for me to carry around and which the LEO may not find very persuasive). That all said, the MSP could issue regs on the meaning of "bona fide" or someone could bring a declaratory judgment action and get some clarity. The GA is simply throwing out these vague terms that allow prosecution at the whim and caprice of the prosecutor.
JamesH
That Guy
This for sure!
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
The point is that such a person may well be a bona fide collector, in fact, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law, as the state has not recognized that status. It would be an issue of fact in any trial or prosecution under 4-203.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
If you own one firearm, are you a bona fide collector?
If you own 50 WWII firearms, but are not a Designated Collector are you a bona fide collector?
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Are you willing to risk your freedom and your ability to ever own a firearm again to your interpretation?
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
I *always* stay within the law when I carry. To be clear (and this should be clear from the prior post), being a DC is *not* enough to come within 4-203. That statute excepts from the general ban on "wear, carry, or transport a handgun"
"(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster"
If I were to rely on that provision, I would be prepared to demonstrate that I am a bona fide gun collector (using my DC letter as part of my proof -- I would be prepared to prove a lot more) AND I was "moving" part or all of my "collection" for the express and specific purpose of a "public or private exhibition", viz., I had previously arranged such an exhibition and I was going directly somewhere for that purpose. This is not particularly hard in my case, as i am an certified instructor (NRA and MSP) and the only time I have transported for this purpose is to teach. So yes, I have in the the past transported under those very specific conditions. I suffer from BGOS as much as the next guy (maybe more as an arrest would end my career), but I try not to be too paranoid.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
OK, clearer.
From your previous post, I got the impression you were supporting the DC letter as establishing one as a bona fide collection.
I did read it quickly.
From your previous post, I got the impression you were supporting the DC letter as establishing one as a bona fide collection.
I did read it quickly.
