Concealed carry and state owned property...

Firstwarrior · Dec 12, 2019

So on the concealed carry MSP website, it clearly states you’re not allowed to carry “in or around state owned public buildings”. To me, this seems extremely vague, and I guess the point is to be vague. But considering the consequences, it should be a little more specific. They directly call out:
-State parks
-State forests
-State rest stops
-Legislative buildings
And then also “state buildings and property” as a general blanket.

But to play devils advocate, what is state property? I mean are state owned roads considered? The MVA? County Baseball fields?What about state owned programs that are housed in “state owned buildings”?

And along with all that, if I were to lock my gun in the vehicle and go into those buildings, am I still breaking the law? I have been told “now I’m transporting, not carrying, so it’s fine”. But the state police website also says “Restricted to wear, carry or transport”.

Also, if this applies to state buildings, does that also then apply to county owned buildings since they fall under the state?

I guess the reason I ask is, if the kids are playing ball at a field, and I want to go, even though it’s not on school property, it’s still state property (or county) so it’s not legal there, even locked in the car?

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welder516 · Dec 12, 2019

You have to look up the deeds of the property owner to get the real answer ... I am being silly but serious at the same time . It is vague for a reason , all gun and knife laws are meant to in-snare you in legal jeopardy and to not give a direct answer .
Or you have to be a lawyer to read that crap . Most here hate Maryland for that and other reasons .

eruby · Dec 12, 2019

Mr. Warrior,

If I had a permit (I do not, for Maryland) I would carry where ever, and when ever I chose (especially if my own kids were involved). I would avoid metal detector places, but would likely carry in Post Offices, and other places the man said I could not, as they have no desire to protect me.

Some may say it's easy for may to say this, as I do not have a Maryland permission slip, but my statements stand.

Per my avatar, I'm a fat, ugly man, and I just don't care anymore.

WWNC!!

Bob A · Dec 12, 2019

eruby said:
Mr. Warrior,

If I had a permit (I do not, for Maryland) I would carry where ever, and when ever I chose (especially if my own kids were involved). I would avoid metal detector places, but would likely carry in Post Offices, and other places the man said I could not, as they have no desire to protect me.

Some may say it's easy for may to say this, as I do not have a Maryland permission slip, but my statements stand.

Per my avatar, I'm a fat, ugly man, and I just don't care anymore.

WWNC!!

Concealed means concealed. Unless you have to use it, who's to know?

Maryland doesn't care if we live or die.

Firstwarrior · Dec 12, 2019

Bob A said:
Concealed means concealed. Unless you have to use it, who's to know?

Maryland doesn't care if we live or die.

My worry with this is, it’s so freaking hard to get, and bending the wrong way, or Christ, slipping and falling and giving anyone the idea you may be carrying, could jeopardize your permit and more.

Imagine if getting caught once without a seatbelt meant you lose your license. Is the risk worth the reward?

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Bob A · Dec 12, 2019

Firstwarrior said:
My worry with this is, it’s so freaking hard to get, and bending the wrong way, or Christ, slipping and falling and giving anyone the idea you may be carrying, could jeopardize your permit and more.

Imagine if getting caught once without a seatbelt meant you lose your license. Is the risk worth the reward?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Once the legislature is on board with passing blatantly unconstitutional laws, which are void by their very nature, disrespect of the legal system becomes epidemic. Look at non-compliance with NY's SAFE act, for example.

Once your rights are taken away, you can fall back on the Baltimore method of street-corner gun sales. That will help insulate you as well, as street thugs get treated better than the law-abiding by the MD courts.

The State doesn't own your life, though it would like to. What you do with it is a very personal decision. This site is not the place to proclaim your intentions.

dblas · Dec 12, 2019

Firstwarrior said:
So on the concealed carry MSP website, it clearly states you’re not allowed to carry “in or around state owned public buildings”. To me, this seems extremely vague, and I guess the point is to be vague. But considering the consequences, it should be a little more specific. They directly call out:
-State parks
-State forests
-State rest stops
-Legislative buildings
And then also “state buildings and property” as a general blanket.

But to play devils advocate, what is state property? I mean are state owned roads considered? The MVA? County Baseball fields?What about state owned programs that are housed in “state owned buildings”?

Might I suggest you look up each of the 13 ites they have listed in the specific COMAR or Annotated Code reference and become familiar with what the actual restirctions are.

And along with all that, if I were to lock my gun in the vehicle and go into those buildings, am I still breaking the law? I have been told “now I’m transporting, not carrying, so it’s fine”. But the state police website also says “Restricted to wear, carry or transport”.

Also, if this applies to state buildings, does that also then apply to county owned buildings since they fall under the state?

I guess the reason I ask is, if the kids are playing ball at a field, and I want to go, even though it’s not on school property, it’s still state property (or county) so it’s not legal there, even locked in the car?

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Your first problem is taking anything on the MSP website as factual.

Instance - They state that rest areas are prohibited areas for concealed carry, when in point of fact and per state law, that is clearly not the case.

Per COMAR 11.04.07.12 - The display or discharge of firearms, pellet guns, B-B guns, and fireworks of any kind is prohibited.

If you are carry concealed per your permit, then you aren't displaying it, and you certainly aren't discharging it.

And please don't get me started on the other items they have listed under "Where are Firearms Prohibited" section.

Stoveman · Dec 12, 2019

What does the relevant statute say? The MSP could put on their website that I'm prohibited from carrying when I visit the throne room but that doesn't make it law.

GuitarmanNick · Dec 12, 2019

I saw this somewhere recently and committed it to memory.

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have it, you will likely never need one again!

Defense Rifle · Dec 12, 2019

eruby said:
Mr. Warrior,

If I had a permit (I do not, for Maryland) I would carry where ever, and when ever I chose (especially if my own kids were involved). I would avoid metal detector places, but would likely carry in Post Offices, and other places the man said I could not, as they have no desire to protect me.

Some may say it's easy for may to say this, as I do not have a Maryland permission slip, but my statements stand.

Per my avatar, I'm a fat, ugly man, and I just don't care anymore.

WWNC!!

People should conceal carry in Baltimore, that city is so crime ridden you're risking your life. Fk Maryland Dems and LEOs that support anti-2A laws. I don't respect unconstitutional "laws".

Backpeddler · Dec 30, 2019

I was told in Tennessee an establishment that created more than 50% of revenue from alcohol was banned for carry. I am surprised I did not see bars as an exclusion for MD. Are bars acceptable for carry with a permit in MD?

Occam · Dec 30, 2019

Backpeddler said:
I was told in Tennessee an establishment that created more than 50% of revenue from alcohol was banned for carry. I am surprised I did not see bars as an exclusion for MD. Are bars acceptable for carry with a permit in MD?

Yes, because your gun can't get drunk just by being in a bar. YOU can, though, and if you're under the influence, you're in trouble while you're carrying. It's not so much that MD allows you to carry in a bar, it's that it doesn't allow you to carry while UI, no matter where or how you got that way. This is one case where MD more or less has it right. I'm perfectly capable of hanging in a bar with friends and having an iced tea instead of getting up above .08 and wrecking my life if I have to defend myself.

DC, on the other hand, makes a series of cryptic distinctions between restaurants (including those with bars) and "taverns," which are no-go. No, you can't tell a tavern from a bar-having restaurant by looking at it. You have to check the liquor licence posted in the window. If the establishment is permitted with the "CT" flavor and you're carrying, move along.

Stoveman · Dec 30, 2019

Occam said:
Yes, because your gun can't get drunk just by being in a bar. YOU can, though, and if you're under the influence, you're in trouble while you're carrying. It's not so much that MD allows you to carry in a bar, it's that it doesn't allow you to carry while UI, no matter where or how you got that way. This in one case where MD more or less has it right. I'm perfectly capable of hanging in a bar with friends and having an iced tea instead of getting up above .08 and wrecking my life if I have to defend myself.

DC, on the other hand, makes a series of cryptic distinctions between restaurants (including those with bars) and "taverns," which are no-go. No, you can't tell a tavern from a bar-having restaurant by looking at it. You have to check the liquor licence posted in the window. If the establishment is permitted with the "CT" flavor and you're carrying, move along.

But not at a pig roast. :innocent0

Occam · Dec 30, 2019

Stoveman said:
But not at a pig roast.

I didn't make that, but I read about it. And I had just managed to forget that that was thread reading time I'll never get back. PPRPPPSTD (post pig roast pistol protocol planning stress disorder): the struggle is real.

Backpeddler · Dec 30, 2019

And I agree that bars should be restricted but then you get into what is a bar. What is a restaurant. When I took the CCW class it made me as a business owner take note of the liability that we put ourselves in by carrying. The offset to that statement is I get to save my life and possibly others in that moment of need. My take on the restrictions are they will be broad enough to let the State make their case.

dblas · Dec 30, 2019

Backpeddler said:
And I agree that bars should be restricted but then you get into what is a bar. What is a restaurant. When I took the CCW class it made me as a business owner take note of the liability that we put ourselves in by carrying. The offset to that statement is I get to save my life and possibly others in that moment of need. My take on the restrictions are they will be broad enough to let the State make their case.

NO, bars should NOT be restricted. MD has it right under current law, which is no carry while under the influence.

As for the MD restrictions posted on the MSP website, have you looked at the actual laws they "quote"?

Stoveman · Dec 30, 2019

Meet your FUDDS and BUTTERS.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 30, 2019

We don't need to wonder about CCW and various establishments , we already know .

Out of the vast majority of Shall Issue states , the rules on this fall into three catagories :

No carry *Any* establishment
Partial restrictions of some sort
No restrictions

The rates of CCW'ers getting loaded and ( doing bad things ) are essentially the same , rounding to near zero everywhere .

If we are going to single out a state with rules to emulate , I'll nominate Utah .

No restrictions on where you may be .
If you are over * The BAC for DWI * , no possession of any loaded firearms of any type, anywhere .

Giving props to UT for having measurable objective standard , instead of potentially subjective " Under the Influence " .

PJS · Jan 2, 2020

If I'm hijacking the thread, let me know and I'll start another...

I'm pretty sure getting popped carrying under the influence would be very difficult to prove, unless one was also driving. While MD doesn't define "under the influence" with respect to carrying a firearm, there is also no requirement to incriminate yourself as there is with a drivers license.

So unless you're driving, you can decline any objective measure of intoxication until they get a warrant for it. Couple that with no objective definition of "under the influence", and I'd bet that charge wouldn't stick. I think it's likely whatever other thing caused your contact with LEO is going to be your problem, not your gun.

For those of us who carry, I think it's patently obvious to not get shellacked while carrying. We do still need to consider our decision making and the potential liability issues.

I'm not too worried about the legal ramifications of having a glass of wine with dinner.

Nobody · Jan 2, 2020

Here's my question. I pay taxes to maintain " State property" therefore it is public property ergo my property.

With the exception of controlled access we should be able to carry on our property. In Pennsylvania you can carry in public areas of Goverment ....read public property while not everywhere?

Nobody

Concealed carry and state owned property...

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